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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What constitutes modern day feminism

635 replies

katienlisa552 · 05/04/2020 10:45

What does it mean to be a feminist in the 21st century? When I and indeed the members of my family who I would consider to be feminist were growing up it was about fighting for equal rights for women such as equal pay and better representation of women in high powered jobs and given that the Labour Party has yet again elected a male leader says to me that there is still along way to go. However I and my family members find ourselves becoming more and more uncomfortable with what some might call the more extreme side of feminism.

I fear that certain views of feminism are allowing a rather unhealthy and quite hateful form especially in relation to trans rights. As a member of the lgbt community and although I’m not trans myself I do have friends who are and I also volunteer for a local charity who support and offer counselling to trans teenagers. I see first hand the damage done by the attitudes promoted and supported by some sections of the feminist community dressed up under the guise of ‘free speech’. The trans right issue is a complex one. I don’t think children should be allowed to transition or be given hormone blockers to prevent puberty because I’m not convinced a child has the maturity to make those kind of life changing decisions although that doesn’t mean I don’t believe that children can’t be trans because I see it everyday through my work with the charity and it’s a fact of great shame that at least 70% of young trans have self harmed or tried to commit suicide because of the prejudice they face.

The biggest contentious issue appears to be that of self indentification. I fail to see how it erodes my rights as a women if a trans person chooses to self identify and personally I find the notion that people chose to self identify because they want to harm others somewhat far fetched. Yes I accept that there are some sick indivuals that do this but the fact is the majority of sex offenders offend as men not men who are self identifying as female or the other wan around. I remember mixed sex changing rooms when I was growing up and I don’t remember a vast increase in sexual assay because of it.

Now despite being accused of it on here several times by people who hide behind the guise of feminism to attack anyone who dares to defend trans rights as someone who condones sexual assault I do not in fact as a surviour of sexual assault I find that extremely offensive. Anyone trans or otherwise who commits any kind of sexual assault deserves to be castrated and strung up. Maybe one way around the shared changing room or toilet issue would be to have single cubicles or toilets as we do at our charity so it doesn’t matter who uses them because there’s only u on there. As a parent and someone who works with children who have been absued I can totally understand the argument for parents wanting to know who the child is sharing a changing room with. Personally I wouldn’t allow my son or my nieces who I regularly look after our without a grown up until they were of teenager age and then allow in groups of friends.

I’ve no doubt that this post will either be ignored or removed as mums net seems to remove anything that resembles some who supports the rights of trans people but just as the people who use feminism to try and erode or stand Agasint trans rights I to have the right to express my opinion.

The debate of feminism and trans issues needs to be less toxic and more about open discussion and tolerance of others opinions will allowing healthy debate because trans people are people and have the same right to be heard and to be given the same freedoms as any other member of society. Do I think that all feminists are transphobic absolutely not and neither do I believe that all of the trans community min are good people. There’s good and bad in everyone and every group of society but since when is that a justification for the discrimination of a whole part of society

OP posts:
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I0NA · 05/04/2020 15:09

I’m not physically attracted to men

Wow @katienlisa552 what hateful language ! How can you rule out all men because some of them are women ?

And How can you possibly know who is a man or woman until you have asked them their pronouns and how they identify ?

Justhadathought · 05/04/2020 15:09

So I’m a women as I have the same sex as birth but I’m gay

It is impossible to be any other sex than the one you were born as.
Whether or not one likes or enjoys the stereotypes of masculinity or femininity is another matter. Few of us do...that's what the women's liberation movement was about.....and the gay liberation movement. The freedom to express yourself regardless of your sex.

It does not negate sex, though.

katienlisa552 · 05/04/2020 15:10

So could u be physically attracted to a women then

OP posts:
RedDogsBeg · 05/04/2020 15:10

But if sex is not a physical thing......? Instead an inner gendered identity.....then does it matter?

Love to see an answer to this.

katienlisa552 · 05/04/2020 15:11

Well I disagree I think there are people who are trapped in the wrong body and can change their sex

OP posts:
Thelnebriati · 05/04/2020 15:12

So bodies have a sex?

I0NA · 05/04/2020 15:12

Are you asking me OP?

It depends on how you define a woman.

Seventyone72seventy3 · 05/04/2020 15:13

Ask yourself this: how can you be trapped in the wrong body? How does that actually work? Surely there must be some sort of brain scan or something that would show that up? No? Well, then how do we know it exists for everyone and if it doesn't exist for everyone why are you telling us we must believe in it or be bigots?

Justhadathought · 05/04/2020 15:14

I don’t really know how to define feminism

However you define it - it centres women and the experience of being female in a female body. If it doesn't - it is something else.....

I0NA · 05/04/2020 15:15

If there’s women trapped in men’s bodies and men trapped in women’s bodies, why can’t they just swap over and save all the surgery and drugs?

FloralBunting · 05/04/2020 15:15

You do all know that nowt said by the OP is on the level here, right? I mean, I always respect the abilities of the women here to do logic with any given argument, but I'd hate to think anyone was actually buying that the OP was a nursery worker with a 5 year old who also worked with LGBTQ+ teenagers who self harmed and knew lots of TW who had genital surgery, and was also a lesbian who had dated MTF trans before?

RedDogsBeg · 05/04/2020 15:16

Hang on a minute katienlisa earlier you said this:

How are they not especially as they can now legally change their gender

Now you are saying this:

Well I disagree I think there are people who are trapped in the wrong body and can change their sex

So which is is? Sex or gender?

Please note sex and gender are not the same thing.

midgebabe · 05/04/2020 15:16

But floral, it's light in dark days?

katienlisa552 · 05/04/2020 15:16

I was yes I’m not sure how I define as a women what makes someone a women

OP posts:
wrongsideofhistorymyarse · 05/04/2020 15:16

Where's your evidence that people can change sex?

midgebabe · 05/04/2020 15:17

Hint

XX
Also XXX

katienlisa552 · 05/04/2020 15:17

So what’s the difference between sex and gender then

OP posts:
Thelnebriati · 05/04/2020 15:18

Sex is your physical body; gender is the role society expects you to play based on your sex.

koshkatt · 05/04/2020 15:18

Yep - just another man on here scolding us! The backstory gets madder every time he adds something to it.

Justhadathought · 05/04/2020 15:18

Well I disagree I think there are people who are trapped in the wrong body and can change their sex

This is a fairly modern idea.....Transsexualism used to be seen and treated as a mental health issue.And surgery and hormones were the very last resort.

How can a person literally be 'trapped' in the wrong body? how does that work? What you mean is that they struggle with the roles and stereotypes/expectations associated with males and female; or have strong feelings of repulsion towards their body?

The goal of most psychotherapies is mind/body integration - and always has been.

Datun · 05/04/2020 15:19

I agree floral, babbling nonsense is one thing. Babbling nonsense that is a hairsbreadth from being full of rage is quite another.

The people I work with are some of the most rationale people I have ever met and they believe that sex can change

Not sure heart one could even construct a sentence so contradictory, but anyway, the contradiction is further embedded with.

around lgbt youth suicide and self harm this are facts in our charity along 80% of our young people have admitted self harm

Along with ...

Neither do a lot of trans women my colleagues who have transition don’t have male genitals

You the twisted fuck obsessed with what is between peoples legs

So they're rational, but most of them try to kill themselves or self harm. They believe you can change sex which is an example of that rational thinking. You know all about their genitalia, but think that other people are obsessed with it if they question it.

Okayyyy...

TinselAngel · 05/04/2020 15:19

We don't need to waste our time answering that as it's done very effectively here:

sexandgenderintro.com/

FloralBunting · 05/04/2020 15:19

midge, oh, I get that, truly. If we're all just batting the silly visitor around like bored cats with an especially tedious mouse, then it's cool, naturally. Just didn't want anyone drawn in to some of the more obviously goady elements being hamfistedly wielded by Bespin the visitor.

midgebabe · 05/04/2020 15:20

I think gender could be broader than just external expectation and may also include internal expectation

That would account for how different people respond to the concept depending on how self or externally focussed you are

RedDogsBeg · 05/04/2020 15:20

I was yes I’m not sure how I define as a women what makes someone a women

Then how can you so assuredly assert that transwomen are women?

A toddler could come up with a more convincing and logical argument than what's being put forward by the OP.

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