What constitutes modern day feminism

[katienlisa552]

What does it mean to be a feminist in the 21st century? When I and indeed the members of my family who I would consider to be feminist were growing up it was about fighting for equal rights for women such as equal pay and better representation of women in high powered jobs and given that the Labour Party has yet again elected a male leader says to me that there is still along way to go. However I and my family members find ourselves becoming more and more uncomfortable with what some might call the more extreme side of feminism.

I fear that certain views of feminism are allowing a rather unhealthy and quite hateful form especially in relation to trans rights. As a member of the lgbt community and although I’m not trans myself I do have friends who are and I also volunteer for a local charity who support and offer counselling to trans teenagers. I see first hand the damage done by the attitudes promoted and supported by some sections of the feminist community dressed up under the guise of ‘free speech’. The trans right issue is a complex one. I don’t think children should be allowed to transition or be given hormone blockers to prevent puberty because I’m not convinced a child has the maturity to make those kind of life changing decisions although that doesn’t mean I don’t believe that children can’t be trans because I see it everyday through my work with the charity and it’s a fact of great shame that at least 70% of young trans have self harmed or tried to commit suicide because of the prejudice they face.

The biggest contentious issue appears to be that of self indentification. I fail to see how it erodes my rights as a women if a trans person chooses to self identify and personally I find the notion that people chose to self identify because they want to harm others somewhat far fetched. Yes I accept that there are some sick indivuals that do this but the fact is the majority of sex offenders offend as men not men who are self identifying as female or the other wan around. I remember mixed sex changing rooms when I was growing up and I don’t remember a vast increase in sexual assay because of it.

Now despite being accused of it on here several times by people who hide behind the guise of feminism to attack anyone who dares to defend trans rights as someone who condones sexual assault I do not in fact as a surviour of sexual assault I find that extremely offensive. Anyone trans or otherwise who commits any kind of sexual assault deserves to be castrated and strung up. Maybe one way around the shared changing room or toilet issue would be to have single cubicles or toilets as we do at our charity so it doesn’t matter who uses them because there’s only u on there. As a parent and someone who works with children who have been absued I can totally understand the argument for parents wanting to know who the child is sharing a changing room with. Personally I wouldn’t allow my son or my nieces who I regularly look after our without a grown up until they were of teenager age and then allow in groups of friends.

I’ve no doubt that this post will either be ignored or removed as mums net seems to remove anything that resembles some who supports the rights of trans people but just as the people who use feminism to try and erode or stand Agasint trans rights I to have the right to express my opinion.

The debate of feminism and trans issues needs to be less toxic and more about open discussion and tolerance of others opinions will allowing healthy debate because trans people are people and have the same right to be heard and to be given the same freedoms as any other member of society. Do I think that all feminists are transphobic absolutely not and neither do I believe that all of the trans community min are good people. There’s good and bad in everyone and every group of society but since when is that a justification for the discrimination of a whole part of society

[WrathofFaeKIopp]

I fail to see how it erodes my rights as a women

As long as you're alright then.

[DickKerrLadies]

I'm lazy so I'm going to c&p what I wrote on another similar thread the other day (with some additions from PertElla)

So far, women are now allowed to participate in the world as if they were men. The original system hasn't changed, but women are allowed to play too now. The world is still set up by men, for men.

If you act like a man would then you can play.

Except if you assert yourself like a man would.

Or continue to apply yourself to your career after having children, like a man would.

That, to me, is not true equality.

Proven by the fact that it's ok for a girl to be a tomboy, but society finds it much less acceptable the other way round. If females were seen as truly equal, that wouldn't be an issue. But while we still hear phrases such as 'run/throw/cry like a girl' I believe we have a way to go.

[WrathofFaeKIopp]

Working for charity, with children is a common phenomenon lately.

[katienlisa552]

Look on any lgbt plus website like stonewall and u will find plenty of stats that many of the lgbt plus community have self harmed

[NiceLegsShameAboutTheFace]

Look on any lgbt plus website like stonewall

Wouldn't trust any of Stonewall's stats, to be honest.

[R0wantrees]

I don’t think children should be allowed to transition or be given hormone blockers to prevent puberty because I’m not convinced a child has the maturity to make those kind of life changing decisions although that doesn’t mean I don’t believe that children can’t be trans because I see it everyday through my work with the charity

So within your work you are affirming children as being transsexual but think they arent mature to consent to medical interventions? How many children do you affirm as being transsexual every day? What are the criteria which convince you of this?
(confirmation bias is a powerful force)

Have you considered the potential impact of on one hand affirming that a child (under 18) is transsexual whilst also asserting they are too 'immature' to consent to treatment?

What of the children you believe/affirm as transsexual who might resolve their distress during puberty & emerge as contented gender non conforming gay or lesbian young people?

Arty Morty's YouTube discussion, 'TRANS KIDS VS. GAY KIDS: The Battle Over Gender-Nonconforming Children' is worth watching & raises important questions for parents, carers & those working for LGBT children's groups:

[MarieQueenofScots]

Look on any lgbt plus website like stonewall and u will find plenty of stats that many of the lgbt plus community have self harmed

That isn’t what you said. You said at least 70% of young trans have self harmed or tried to commit suicide because of the prejudice they face

Can you please link to the study that reflects that stat.

[katienlisa552]

And how do trans rights erode your rights as a women it doesn’t people just use that as an excuse for bigotry

[Fromage]

What's your point, OP? Because your post is about trans issues, and your question is about the definition of feminism.

Maybe you could start two separate threads?

[MarieQueenofScots]

You might want to be terribly woke and assert women can have penises.

I prefer to deal in the science of biology.

[NiceLegsShameAboutTheFace]

I fail to see how it erodes my rights as a women if a trans person chooses to self identify

Really? I don't believe you!

[katienlisa552]

I would trust stats like that far more over people on mums net or any other social media also through the work I do in schools I see it all the time the fact that nearly ever child in every session I do says that’s schools aren’t safe for transgendered people is a sad reflection of the society we live in it’s not the kids that are the probably it’s the adults especially those that use the guise of feminism or religion To justify bigotry

[katienlisa552]

I want to know
When feminism started to be used as a guise to justify discrimination and prejudice

[Fromage]

And how do trans rights erode your rights as a women it doesn’t people just use that as an excuse for bigotry


To which trans rights do you refer?

[OhHolyJesus]

Lots of different groups self harm, teenagers alone without being divided into a sub-set self harm. Women in their 20's. Many men in their 30s are suicidal.

Mental health conditions affect everyone, it's not something that applies to only one group.

Feminism isn't really about mental health, or sexuality or gender identity. It's about equal opportunities and about being treated equally and fairly in society and having the same rights. It doesn't mean that realistically everyone will be equal but striving towards that, for me it certainly doesn't mean that I want a 50/50 split across all organisations or industry but the chance for women to be given a fair shot in work or education, just the same as men.

Be uncomfortable with what you call or think is modern day feminism by all means.

[MarieQueenofScots]

I would trust stats like that

You haven’t shared a stat. You’ve shared your opinion. Please share a link to the stats.

[Seventyone72seventy3]

So how do you propose solving the problem of higher rate of sexual assaults in unisex/mixed sex spaces? Do you have better answer than segregating by sex?

[OhHolyJesus]

Why do the children you work with think that schools aren't safe for 'trans' kids?

That's something worth exploring.

A 2013 survey on bullying in UK schools noted a number of reasons that kids are bullied, being overweight was one.

Do you have any stats, that's aren't Stonewall ones or ones from a Stonewall-captured organisation that lists the number of children in the Uk bullied because of their 'trans' status? It would be good to see these stats broken down by region and perhaps by private or state schools too.

[R0wantrees]

I would trust stats like that far more over people on mums net or any other social media also through the work I do in schools I see it all the time the fact that nearly ever child in every session I do says that’s schools aren’t safe for transgendered people is a sad reflection of the society we live in

Im concerned about your knowledge/skills base.

[OhHolyJesus]

Cross-post with Marie

[BovaryX]

it doesn’t people just use that as an excuse for bigotry

People who reinforce reactionary gender stereotypes, who encourage children to believe they can 'transform' into the opposite sex and think anatomical males have a right to be housed with female prisoners and allowed into sex segregated spaces according to whim? Those who oppose this agenda aren't 'bigots.'

[katienlisa552]

If trans women are women which they are they why does the principles of feminism ie equal rights for women unless u believe trans women aren’t women which in turn reaffirms my point that feminism excludes trans women because those who interpret it are themselves bigots

[MarieQueenofScots]

If trans women are women which they are they why does the principles of feminism ie equal rights for women unless u believe trans women aren’t women which in turn reaffirms my point that feminism excludes trans women because those who interpret it are themselves bigots

I believe a trans person has the right to live how they want. I don’t believe a trans person can change sex.

I don’t believe people with penises have any place in women’s sports, women’s refuges, women’s prisons.

[R0wantrees]

at least 70% of young trans have self harmed or tried to commit suicide because of the prejudice they face

Seriously concerned.
Are you familiar with Samaritans best practice for example with regards discussing suicide with children &/or vulnerable adults?

Please do take some time to consider it in light of such assertions.
www.samaritans.org/about-samaritans/media-guidelines/

[Fromage]

I want to know
When feminism started to be used as a guise to justify discrimination and prejudice

By whom?