Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Zoe has gone woke

134 replies

MrsSnippyPants · 29/03/2020 15:11

I’m sure they were asking for your ‘sex at birth’ previously?

Zoe has gone woke
OP posts:
CheriLittlebottom · 31/03/2020 19:49

I've uninstalled too. What's the point in giving them data if they aren't bothering to collect accurate data in the first place? Scientists that credit gender feelz as having any importance in the current situation can fucking do one.

gassylady · 31/03/2020 19:53

I’ve contacted them too:

“Got logged out and when I tried to log back in noticed your demographic questions have been altered. I think this is in a way that will render your results at best confusing and at worst meaningless.

It appears biological males have poorer outcomes from COVID-19. Surely it would therefore be useful to know how many males are supplying information. Asking if people identify as male will conflate data from males and trans men (ie biological females)
What will you do if everyone replies they don’t identify as anything?

Also sex is not assigned at birth it is noted after the briefest of glances by the birth attendant. Why could you not stick with were you born male or female (with an option to say intersex/indeterminate)”

At first got the generic reply but earlier today got what looks like an individual reply

“Thank you for reaching out with this feedback. Our goal here is to be as inclusive as possible. We will be providing helpful information to our scientists with whom we collaborated on these questions. We not only as sex assigned at birth (a standard question used in research) but have also asked about how people identify (i.e. as transgender) so that we may rectify the issues you are concerned about.”

So I have of course sent a further comment GrinGrin

“ People are either male or female even those that have one of the disorders of sexual differentiation. Therefore that is all the information you need to be inclusive of everyone!”

BeetrootRocks · 01/04/2020 09:00

So with the hormone answer, that's just a basic lie as to why they did it.

That's not good is it.

Kit19 · 01/04/2020 09:27

nope! i am of course shocked to discover that Zoe is all male

joinzoe.com/about-us

i genuinely think they think lying to women doesnt 'count'

Kantastic · 01/04/2020 09:32

Shouldn't Zoe be prioritising older people, the most vulnerable population, above a bunch of petulant triviality activists? (tantrum activists?) Are older people going to know what the fuck "sex assigned at birth" even means? Any competent English speaker is going to be extremely confused by that phrase.

If not offending TRAs is genuinely such a huge priority, why don't they put "sex recorded at birth?" This has the advantage of being accurate, unlike "assigned" and therefore much less confusing for people who don't know the jargon.

And it doesn't go against any of the rules of trans religion because they can pretend the wrong sex was recorded if they like - it is in no way implying they actually are their actual sex, which I appreciate would be blasphemous.

"Sex recorded at birth" seems like it should be a very workable solution that meets everyone's needs/"needs"- but then more and more it seems like TRAs don't want actual solutions to their purported problems, they just want to make people speak nonsense catechisms as part of the power trip. That birthing leaflet that was posted here recently is another example - it could have been written non-confusingly even within genderist rules, but it wasn't. I suspect that clunky confusing language which excludes much of the target audience is a more satisfying signal of obeisance.

Also, fuck "Zoe", they aren't getting my data. Maybe I would have once thought this didn't matter much and it is worth co-operating with them despite it. But now I see that making a consistent fuss over trivialities, prioritising their egos over the common good, is how TRAs have been eroding women's rights. And it's only worked because people expect women not to do the same. I'd encourage everyone reading to delete this app. If they can't respect us, they can fuck off.

Datun · 01/04/2020 09:35

Also intersex people used the 'assigned at birth' term precisely because it is sometimes quite genuinely wrong.

In which case the app is potentially getting the wrong info from intersex people. Ironically, the only people for whom the term holds any true significance.

'What sex are you?' should be the question.

Kit19 · 01/04/2020 09:48

as far as i can tell Zoe is only available as an app and 60% of people over 65 arent on line at all and only 19% own a smartphone

the data is going to be massively skwered towards the young and healthy

Kantastic · 01/04/2020 09:49

'What sex are you?' should be the question.

Some people would flat out lie in response to that and deliberately fuck up the data, ego being more important than ethics. IIRC it was a fairly well known UK transwoman who said they'd be quite happy to enrol in a medical trial as a "woman" - don't want to name them just in case I've misremembered who it was.

DickKerrLadies · 01/04/2020 09:50

TRA belief is that sex and gender are different - so why is asking for one's sex such a problem anyway?

If sex is the irrelevance that we're told it is, why is it such a big deal?

And isn't it transphobic to assume that transpeople are on hormones? How very rude of them.

DickKerrLadies · 01/04/2020 09:52

Some people would flat out lie in response to that and deliberately fuck up the data, ego being more important than ethics.

Sadly, this is true.

Datun · 01/04/2020 10:09

Some people would flat out lie in response to that and deliberately fuck up the data,

Agreed. But they will also lie about being assigned a sex.

BeetrootRocks · 01/04/2020 13:37

Plenty of tra say they are female and always have been.

Also if the Zoe app makers believe that sex is assigned at random and can easily be wrong, then there's no point whatsoever collecting that information.

AwrightDoreenTakeAFuckinDayOff · 01/04/2020 13:45

And that is why I won’t be participating.

It all depends on it being accurate.

Fannying about and bowing to those feeling suitably aggrieved by terminology and feels rather than facts makes the data inaccurate.

ScrimpshawTheSecond · 01/04/2020 14:39

Hm. That bullshit response about hormones means I will be deleting the app. What disingenuous crap.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 01/04/2020 14:47

Have also uninstalled and asked them to delete my data.

I also mentioned that their methodology was fundamentally flawed if they though gender was important, and did not realise that sex was recorded and not assigned and that I didn't want to be involved in bad science.

Lordfrontpaw · 01/04/2020 14:49

Are there any other apps collecting (proper, accurate) data for the same purpose (but for grownups)?

Manderleyagain · 01/04/2020 15:12

Is the zoe app you are talking about the same as this one?

www.kcl.ac.uk/news/symptom-tracker-app-hits-15-million-uk-users

BeetrootRocks · 01/04/2020 15:13

Yes it says the name in the article

Kantastic · 01/04/2020 15:39

Thanks for that article Manderley

Half (49%) of app users are 18-39 (26% of the population), with the lowest reporting group (9.5%) being aged 60+ who are most at-risk and represent 23.8% of the UK population. The team are focussed on making the experience as usable as possible by all ages, especially those classified as high risk by the NHS.

I don't think I have the fuel to get angry today but juxtapose this passage with the OP. Presumably the "sex assigned" nonsense is one of the first questions asked. Way to go, TRAs.

CheriLittlebottom · 01/04/2020 15:41

usable as possible unless you know what sex is.

Kit19 · 01/04/2020 15:51

Kantastic the rage gets exhausting doesnt it?

I am shocked, shocked i tell you, that a high level medical consultant and a bunch of tech bros produced an app to record data and are surprised most of the people using it are not in the high risk group of older people

For all the 'silver surfing' that gets talked about the majority of older people dont use smart phones (about 80%) so they're not going to download an app. Do some basc fucking resarch Zoe

Melroses · 01/04/2020 17:14

This was on R4 Today this morning. They want more over 70s.

Perhaps they should have prioritised them in their design?

ScrimpshawTheSecond · 01/04/2020 20:51

Doesn't seem to have been thought through, does it? Busywork. Pointless.

Ah, well.

Melroses · 02/04/2020 10:36

There was someone on the radio this morning from Oxford, developing an NHS app to tell you if you have been near someone with coronavirus.

Maybe this one will be fit for purpose?

(can't see it working either)

PaleBlueMoonlight · 02/04/2020 10:46

Such an interesting point Datun, I hdn't thought about the fact that for people who were actually assigned a sex at birth (because their genitals were ambiguous), the answer to this question might not actually be their true sex. In addition, the question is irrelevant for people who do not have DSDs (who's sex is observed) and might lead to confusion even if the right answer is given. As for transgender people who claim that they have always been the opposite sex to that which they are, it does not matter what the question is, they will answer it incorrectly anyway.