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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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A few questions for feminists

319 replies

ConservativeV8 · 19/03/2020 18:58

  1. Why is feminism so small in number? They get plenty of airtime but it isn't catching on. Women know about it so why no support?
  1. Feminists want equality of opportunity and equality of outcome but how can you have both when it's impossible? You want to give women choice, but then want exactly 50% of men and women in each industry. This can only be achieved by forcing women (and men) to do jobs they don't want to or choose to do. Explain?
  1. Why do you think the earnings difference is due to gender when time and time again it has been shown it has nothing or very little to do with it. Why feminists not take into account the 40 or so factors which affect earnings, such as men are more likely to work longer hours, do more overtime, take less holidays, work more dangerous jobs, willing to relocate, willing to commute further, etc etc?

Please discuss.

OP posts:
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TheBewildernessisWeetabix · 19/03/2020 23:34

Give us back our Lang and we will promise you anything.
(we will likely break every promise)

Fieldofgreycorn · 19/03/2020 23:37

TBH Clara, that is a more than a little patronising. I think people can decide what they use as a stimulus for further thought and discussion without diktats from on high.

Omg pot kettle. You really are one of the most patronising condescending people I’ve come across! Has noone ever told you that in real life? I can’t believe not. Or is it just me.

TheBewildernessisWeetabix · 19/03/2020 23:41

It's just you.

ErrolTheDragon · 19/03/2020 23:44

Can you please remove the no troll hunting rule for a bit?

It's not like anyone actually has to hunt the MM. I think it's the PBP rule which applies to him.

TheBewildernessisWeetabix · 19/03/2020 23:46

He has been banned so many times under so many names. One time he even registered as the MM.

LadyQuarantinaPluckington · 19/03/2020 23:50

He did, yes!

I wouldn't like to guess what he gets out of it, but I suspect he doesn't get a lot of face to face interaction IRL.

BeetrootRocks · 20/03/2020 00:49

And he always posts the exact same questions!

Discuss!

I'm interested in the difference in timing. Maybe he has some acolytes in different time zones now?

Lol at dismay at saying mm is a wanker Grin

MrsTerryPratchett · 20/03/2020 01:32

One time he even registered as the MM.

OMG he didn't?

TheBewildernessisWeetabix · 20/03/2020 01:57

The Midnight Misogynist liked the name we gave him so much he actually started using it. I bet he has been banned as many times as Joss Pryor.

DancelikeEmmaGoldman · 20/03/2020 03:13

Does the strong smell of cheese and onion crisps not bother them?

This is entirely tangential, but if you’re looking for entertainment, allow me to recommend the Bon Appétit YouTube series “Pastry Chef Attempts to Make Gourmet ...”. Not because you’ll want to make any of the recipes, but because the series is really funny. Poor Claire looks into the abyss and sees nothing but processed snacks, supported but not assisted, by Brad, the MacGyver of cooking. There is a cast of engaging characters who also make food. It’s like they started out making proper cooking videos and ended up with a sitcom. This is the episode where they make sour cream and onion Ruffles, hence the tangent.

Grizzly, absolutely. Apex predators for the win.

TheBewildernessisWeetabix · 20/03/2020 03:18

I have been watching that. The Bon Apetit test kitchen is a hoot.

NonnyMouse1337 · 20/03/2020 07:33

I would say that since feminism is predominantly a political movement, it is precisely why many women wouldn't necessarily call themselves feminists. You don't have to explicitly align yourself with a political term to agree (or disagree) with certain ideas or viewpoints.

Many people would consider themselves to be left wing, will support things like worker's rights etc and might vote for Labour at elections, but most wouldn't feel the need to actually join the Labour party and attend the meetings and canvassing.
Many people are concerned about climate change, the environment and would support certain reforms, but most wouldn't join the Green Party or agree with their approach. Some might support the Greens, but decide it's better to vote Labour or Lib Dem during elections as they have a better chance of securing political power.

There was a website where you could read specific electoral policy from manifestos and agree or disagree with them. Turns out a lot of people agree with Green Party policies and principles without realising it.

So I think it depends on how your question is framed. "Would you call yourself a feminist?" might result in many women saying no for all sorts of reasons, including uninformed ones especially if they have heard negative connotations from media or friends.
If you start asking specific questions like "Do you think women should have the right to vote?", "Do you think employers should be able to discriminate against hiring women because of pregnancy?", "Do you think husbands should be prosecuted for raping their wives?" And so on. Then you might find that a lot of women will be in agreement with and supportive of 'feminist' ideas. There will be differences of opinions too, of course, but broad agreement of women's rights.

Even when women don't view themselves as feminists, it doesn't stop them from campaigning or protesting an issue, forming groups to address problems that affect them or finding creative ways to support other women.

And of course as mentioned by previous posters, there are various strands of feminism and differences in approach.
Some support equality of opportunity, others support equality of outcome, others prefer to focus on liberation instead of equality. So if you're going to consistently criticise 'feminism', you need to understand the differences first.

I most likely wouldn't be considered to be a 'good' feminist as I tend to be skeptical about certain assertions and disagree with certain approaches, but that doesn't stop me from being supportive of women's rights and issues overall. Smile

DickKerrLadies · 20/03/2020 07:40

Personally, I think some women don't think they are feminists because the only people they hear about feminism from are men who think they know what feminism is all about. Even though, clearly, they don't.

EoinMcLovesCakeJumper · 20/03/2020 07:41

NonnyMouse yes, but would you rather be eaten by a grizzly bear or by a huge python? These are the real questions we've been addressing on this thread...

OhHolyJesus · 20/03/2020 08:00

I said I was a feminist to a co worker and he said "you can't be, you're married" (to a man).

In his mind they are mutually exclusive.

I love men, I really do. I just centre women in my feminism (funny that) and I recognise what the patriarchy is (as do my father and my husband) and I do what I can to break it, not for equality, but for equal opportunity.

I think OP has sloped off but is lurking so if you're still hanging around OP, I have some questions for you too, if you ever return.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 20/03/2020 08:07

I do love it when someone volunteers to be our scratching post!

Bear, definitely.

My question for OP is why this forum in particular to pester? Mummy issues?

NearlyGranny · 20/03/2020 08:19

It always tickles me when (some) men expect 'Feminists' to be a monolithic group with identical beliefs and opinions about everything. Then, when they bother dig a little, it's all so complicated, almost as if women are thinking for themselves. Who knew?!

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 20/03/2020 08:20

Oh, also, since I don't have a new recipe to share, a thought about immunity and vitamin C. I find that I can't drink much orange juice before my tummy starts to feel a bit off, too acidic, and I felt like everyone should be making sure they get some vitamin C right now, but then I remembered that I had dried rosehips in the cupboard! Which are also full of vitamin C, so now I'm busy drinking rosehip tea, which does make my tummy go funny.

This tip comes to you courtesy of the evil feminist desire to keep everyone as healthy as possible during a crisis.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 20/03/2020 08:22

Which does not make my tummy go funny, rather. Can be mixed with hibiscus if you want some variety.

ErrolTheDragon · 20/03/2020 08:26
  • I said I was a feminist to a co worker and he said "you can't be, you're married" (to a man).

In his mind they are mutually exclusive. *

Increasingly when I hear things like this (and other idiocies such as the OPs 'You want to give women choice, but then want exactly 50% of men and women in each industry. ') I just want to say 'Don't be so silly'.

EoinMcLovesCakeJumper · 20/03/2020 08:27

I love rosehips. A jar of beautiful, pale pink rosehip jelly is a wondrous thing to have in your cupboard at the tail end of the autumn. For vitamin C, I also recommend hibiscus tea if you can get hold of it.

Mummy issues is probably a good guess. Maybe she has told him that he can't have a ping pong table in his basement and he's real pissed at her.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 20/03/2020 08:32

Also also, in case anyone doesn't know cause the name is in Spanish, you know the bright purple drink you sometimes see in Mexican restaurants called jamaica? Hibiscus, full of vitamin C (and won't make your tummy hurt like orange juice can).

(Yes, I have officially hit the "concerned" stage. Still not understanding what everyone is planning to do with all the hoarded loo roll though, build zombie repelling forts possibly.)

ErrolTheDragon · 20/03/2020 08:42

When I was a kid, fresh oranges came out of fresh oranges, a lot of squeezing to get half a glassful. Frozen tubes of Florida orange concentrate were a luxury.

So DM used to give us a rather lovely mix of rosehip syrup (from Boots) and PLJ bottled lemon juice.

QuentinWinters · 20/03/2020 08:43

Is rosehip jam nice? I'm a bit of a forager but never tried that and I don't know what a rosehip tastes like

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 20/03/2020 08:47

It's more fruity than floral, Quentin. I love the tea, never tried the jam.