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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

How not to 'fill the gaps' for men

160 replies

daringdoris · 15/03/2020 15:58

Inspired by the discussion on the Billy Bragg thread about left-wing men thinking that women are just there to make the tea and make sure there's enough paint for the placards, and Blibbyblobby on the 'Diana' thread, who said you've never been a professional woman stepping up to do boring admin to help the team because someone has to do it then realising the men don't even register you've been filling the gaps for them

I've realised I do this. The men around me are nice people, but now I think about it, nearly all the boring admin in a venture we're involved with is left to me. It is voluntary work, but in a context where we have to be extremely professional and well organised.

I really want to not only stop doing it, but get them to realise that the gaps are being filled by (almost) the only girl in the venture. Is it possible? Has anybody done it?

I'm happy to be pointed towards an existing thread if this discussion's been done to death already. Smile

OP posts:
Danceswithwarthogs · 15/03/2020 16:10

My sister finds the same in her work (digital marketing). She’s the only woman on her team at her grade, she has her own project work plus any planning/logistics/catering for events falls to her and she finds that support/secretarial staff (mainly female) will volunteer to do work on behalf of the male staff but not her, she feels awkward asking them and usually ends up doing it herself. She then feels that she is only appraised on the work she does on her main projects and the rest is invisible, and so she has to work twice as hard for the same recognition as the men on the team.

Danceswithwarthogs · 15/03/2020 16:13

On the plus side she had free reign to organise an iwd event that actually centred women (and no womxn nonsense Grin)

Original poster
daringdoris · 15/03/2020 16:16

There must be a pragmatic way of making this obvious to both the male colleagues and the support staff in your sister's case. I feel like my brain goes fuzzy when I think about it though...
Also that setting up a system or suchlike is yet more admin work for those who are already doing more than their fair share!

OP posts:
Original poster
daringdoris · 15/03/2020 16:17

Ah yes, being left to your own devices does have its advantages!

OP posts:
TorkTorkBam · 15/03/2020 16:21

I am fiercely self-policing on this topic at work.

Do not tell them you have been filling the gaps. They will think you are bonkers. Sadly. It just doesn't help. It puts you into the role of nag demanding "help" with "her hoovering."

What you do is: STOP. Immediately stop. Wipe your mind of it being your responsibility at all.

If someone says "why didn't x happen" you say nothing at all.

If things will go wrong because nobody is doing x. You do nothing, say nothing, you let it fail.

If someone asks you directly if you know about why x hasn't happened, look blank and say "No idea" and wander off.

If anyone mentions you did it/ doing it say "I did the first one to get my turn done. Let me know when it is my turn again."

Take no mental load, no reminders, no rota making, no flagging up that the printer needs toner, no making passive aggressive notes.

Observe the most oblivious man. Copy him.

Original poster
daringdoris · 15/03/2020 16:30

That's really helpful, thank you.

I had noticed it was bothering me as I was starting to make slightly passive-aggressive comments at the worst offenders, which is very unlike me.

I know that telling them would put me into that nagging role, which is why I haven't done it!

I can see a couple of contexts where I can apply your ideas immediately.

OP posts:
definitelygc · 15/03/2020 16:35

Do not tell them you have been filling the gaps. They will think you are bonkers. Sadly. It just doesn't help.

I can attest to this being true. In response to people thinking I was bonkers I set an official "admin to do list" where I divvied up all the tasks to everyone on the team and then ticked off all the ones I'd done to prove my point. No one took any notice.

Tork is right - the only way to get people to care is to let shit hit the fan. Then suddenly the admin tasks take on huge importance.

Qcng · 15/03/2020 16:39

Just say "someone needs to do xyz" (admin/ organise catering) and leave it at that? That's what men do.

Kit19 · 15/03/2020 16:42

Yes!! It’s hard not to just step in especially when it’s going wrong & making work extra difficult but it’s worth it on the long run. I’m not their wife or mummy, I’m not stepping in to clear up the mess

TorkTorkBam · 15/03/2020 16:46

Be ready for all the men to look at you in anticipation when an admin task fails and needs someone to take it on. Say nothing. Don't even engage in the discussion. If they then ask you say "God no, I'm rubbish at that kind of thing. Ask Bob, he's good with detail, he might help you out."

If you get lumbered with lady jobs then do them badly and act like you are confused as to why Bob isn't doing them. Like those men who can rebuild an elite road bike but who can't operate a washing machine without shrinking your favourite top.

Nobody EVER asks me to fill in a form for them or set up a the lunches. Yet I can do it completely successfully in my private life. Funny that.

Original poster
daringdoris · 15/03/2020 16:52

I had thought about doing that kind of list, definitelygc.

Won't be doing it.

OP posts:
FloralBunting · 15/03/2020 16:53

Tork, spot on. I work in a predominantly female environment, and I've noticed that most of the women are particularly diligent, and when the few men drop balls, the women, including myself, tend to pick them up without a murmur.

I had a few days off some time ago, and I know a bloke covered my shifts, and the slapdashery was astonishing when I came back - paperwork missing, tasks not done but signed for, costly mistakes. I realized that I had a choice to just hoover it all up or just stick to my own responsibilities and let the person responsible for the gaps take that responsibility.

I've felt a lot more balanced in myself as a result.

OverMy · 15/03/2020 16:56

Do not do the things.
Do not acknowledge the things.
Do not twitch when the things are not done.
It’s office chicken.

Work around the things not being done so someone else is inconvenienced by them, hopefully a man.

I work in a male dominated team. We have no secret Santa, no birthday or anything else stuff. No department cake rotas etc etc. Whoever discovers we are out of stationery or similar orders it - we don’t have admin staff. This happened after a variety of people wandered to the cupboard and said oh where are the things? Me - said nothing. If directly asked, I said I don’t know I don’t use them. Oh we are out of tea/coffee. Me - are we? Huh, I bring my own weird brand. It’s hard work ignoring but it gets easier.

picklemewalnuts · 15/03/2020 16:56

I'm trying to recognise this. In my context I'm not sure how much of it is sex based, and how much personality based. I'm refusing to help a woman who busily picks up after everyone else. I feel bad, but have spoken to her about boundaries, that it's ok for things to fail if people don't do them correctly. It isn't her responsibility to be the team's safetynet.

Original poster
daringdoris · 15/03/2020 17:11

Maybe give her some of the great advice on this thread? Smile

OP posts:
Catting · 15/03/2020 17:23

I grew up with very, very lazy siblings....and I was the one expected to work for some reason. You must learn to embrace the chaos. Be surprised when informed of the chaos. Learn NON COMITAL statements,
"Oh really, gosh."
"Hmmm. That's not good"
But most of all, learn to shut up, enjoy awkward silence as that is when they expect YOU to say that you'll fix it.

Coyoacan · 15/03/2020 17:48

TorkTorkBam

Brilliant

Sounds like a technique that could be applied in the home too.

Redshoeblueshoe · 15/03/2020 17:56

Some excellent tips on here Grin
Although I like the idea of no secret Santa

JuanSheetIsPlenty · 15/03/2020 18:00

In addition to just not doing the gap work.

Eye up what you do want to do- and then claim it. You probably have a fair idea of what tasks will need doing for every new project. Don’t wait to be handed your part of the job. Claim the part you want before anyone else decides who is doing what. And keep doing it. Even if people whinge and gurn. That’s what a man would do.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/03/2020 18:12

What you do is: STOP. Immediately stop. Wipe your mind of it being your responsibility at all.

YES.

picklemewalnuts · 15/03/2020 18:14

This is turning out really interesting. Thank you all for your insights.

AutumnRose1 · 15/03/2020 18:17

Exactly, just don’t do it. Certainly don’t volunteer for it.

TheSmelliestHouse · 15/03/2020 18:28

Didn't realise that I do this so much. Thanks for this thread. That's me done with filling the gaps :)

TorkTorkBam · 15/03/2020 18:32

YY to it being office chicken.

Also YY to grabbing the job you want first. Despite this thread I have a reputation for being the one who pitches in. That's because I immediately volunteer for what I do like. Then I have receipts for "god no, I'm up to my eyes already, try Bob."