How not to 'fill the gaps' for men

[daringdoris]

Inspired by the discussion on the Billy Bragg thread about left-wing men thinking that women are just there to make the tea and make sure there's enough paint for the placards, and Blibbyblobby on the 'Diana' thread, who said you've never been a professional woman stepping up to do boring admin to help the team because someone has to do it then realising the men don't even register you've been filling the gaps for them

I've realised I do this. The men around me are nice people, but now I think about it, nearly all the boring admin in a venture we're involved with is left to me. It is voluntary work, but in a context where we have to be extremely professional and well organised.

I really want to not only stop doing it, but get them to realise that the gaps are being filled by (almost) the only girl in the venture. Is it possible? Has anybody done it?

I'm happy to be pointed towards an existing thread if this discussion's been done to death already.

You see... I didn’t see it as excuses, I hear people sharing their experiences and other people giving advice from their experiences in a supportive/constructive way.

We can’t all be Karen Brady and work place culture can vary widely. It’s verging on a bit gaslighty to suggest that all sexism in the workplace is women’s own fault for not being... assertive/bossy/rude(?)/clever enough to sidestep these issues. But definitely if you are in a secure position and it’s worth it in the long run to put your foot down and make a stand for yourself and for women everywhere then good for you. There are very many real-world reasons why it’s often prudent not to, and it doesn’t serve any of us if successful women climb the ladder and pull it up behind them without passing on their wisdom or holding their male employees to account when they come up short and expect colleagues to mother them.

People are socialised to behave like this from birth. Both men and women. That means lots of women don't even notice what they are doing. That's how socialisation works.

Step 1: notice you are filling the gaps.
Step 2: stop filling the gaps.
Step 3: play it forward to other women who are not yet at step 1.

ICouldHaveDancedAllNight

You can spin that to dishing out work once it’s scrubbed. Allocating areas of responsibility and highlighting lack of updates, Pointing out how much more efficient it is and issuing guidelines on maintaining it.

Put your name and last updated by on one all the pages too.

Do not touch the website. Do not nag others to do it. Office chicken remember.

If it winds you up enough, keep your own special page with links to the useful places for you that is only for you.

@OverMy - that's good advice. I think now I've offered I probably can't back out now. And, I was kind of using this to get really familiar with the inner workings of the department - because knowledge is power. But I'm going to be a damn sight more assertive about handing off the maintenance once I've finished. I'm going to suggest to my team leader that this may be a good task to be handed out yearly. Perhaps randomly so it doesn't always fall to a woman.

@TorkTorkBam - I like the phrase of office chicken! The only thing about this website is it's pretty impossible to always store the links you need because of the security settings. And scrolling very slowly through 7 pages is driving me crazy. I think I'll take this one on the chin and have it as a learning curve. Having two different opinions makes me think this one is a bit of a grey area but to beware in future.

Icouldhavedanced if the older men on the team are more alert to what's relevant, I would just make an announcement via whatever channel you originally used to offer to scrub the team page eg. if you originally said at the monday team meeting that you would scrub the page, at the next team meeting say "ok, I had a look at the team page and as I'm too new to the team I don't actually know what's relevant so it would be a waste of time me doing it. So someone else more senior/who has been here longer will have to do it instead." And then use all your powers to resist being drawn on helping, assisting, etc. Just keep repeating that you can't do it. Full stop.

Icouldhavedanced

Has your team leader actually agreed to you doing the work? It would be worth going back to her with an estimate of how much time it’s going to take before getting stuck in.

Absolutely office chicken - but you swerved like Rusty in Footloose. Now you’ve done it you need to recover it as best you can and do not serve next time!

And to @Overmy

Thanks!
I've been mildly grumbling and putting out feelers about sorting out the home page for months now, so I did a Henny Penny thing and thought "well if no other fucker here is going to do it, I'll do it". I even asked outright if the older workers hated it too, but I think they are now in the monkey cage and don't realize how stinky it is there. Suggesting one of them do it (including a couple of the older women) was a bit like trying to get my mum to change from her brick Nokia.

I'm quite disorganized and chaotic at heart, so I desperately crave organization otherwise I tend to spin off and be random. So doing this does benefit me somewhat as I can organize it the way that will best suit my jumpy brain.

I told the team leader how long it will take and because our work is flat right now (because of CV) then i'll probably be finished very quickly. SO yes, I'm going to keep doing it, but I'm definitely going to squash my inner rusty in future. Thanks for the Footloose reference!

That was also to @Xiaoxiong!

I am reading lots of practical steps on this thread. Identifying unconscious patterns of behaviour is the only way to address them. Not seeing any handwringing either. Are you reading the same thread?

And you have been consistently rude and unpleasant god knows what your problem is. If this topic upsets you so much why post on it?

Fuck. That Being Glue presentation.

Im not a coder, im in a different branch of Engineering. But Fucking hell that is the Exact story of my career. Right down to the job titles thing. The fact that is i was indepensible to my bloody team, glue, just like she says. And so , so many mediocre men got promoted past me, because whilst I was busy doing all the shit, THEY got the technical work. And then I had insufficient technical experience to be promised. despite the fact that all my glue skills were managerial skills. More annoyingly, I didn’t even volunteer for the fucking glue work. It got landed on me.

I so wish I’d seen that 15 years ago.

This is an excellent thread. I hope it helps people avoid having to learn to unpack their conditioning the hard way.

Just skimmed through the thread but definitely coming back to this.
The last few days I've been rushing around organising so our staff can WFH and not one of the leadership team has helped me.
I am in the weird position of taking over my family business from my father and although it keeps being alluded to that I'll be made a director sometime it hasn't happened yet...even though I've done more like putting out some major fires thanks to the other directors incompetence in the last few years than most of them have done in ten years.
But it's all the things they hate and find unexciting like legislation, meeting audit requirements, H&S, and HR.
I should just not do them then go 🤷‍♀️

Thought of this thread yesterday when realised we need to home school kids and we both work from home. I immediately started planning then caught on that its 50% dh issue too...

Sickof if you are going to take it over one day it makes sense for you to be appointed a director, and doing director-y things. Have you spoken to your father? You should be stepping back from doing all the glue stuff and focusing on learning the running the business side of things.

If you are in a position where you can't leave the 'gap' due to consequences there are ways to articulate that there is a gap.

Eg working in a cardiology dept, with someone the same grade as me temporarily in charge who I had noticed hadn't sorted out a lunch rota I couldn't let it go because it would mean a) staff didn't get a break and b) would impact on patients; so I asked the males, same grade, in front of everyone, "I know you will have thought of this because it is one of the basics of running this department but do you think you could let me know which lunch break I'm on".

If it was the example of the room not being booked up thread for a meeting I'd be sending an email to who ever should book the room and ask which room they had booked, I wouldn't be booking it, and the next time I wouldn't ask.

I thought of this thread again today as I had a narky reminder email from a male client about a deadline at the end of the week (for something entirely unimportant). No recognition of the fact that we're currently all in turmoil, that many people are figuring out how to look after kids/parents/etc. I have a feeling he's not doing any gap filling right now. I'm trying to figure out the best way to respond given that his request is absolutely at the bottom of my priority list now I'm trying to figure out how to keep the business afloat.

My work colleague had to explain to her Male boss that she needed a break from working on round the clock corporate deal to sort her laundry do errands etc. He looked baffled. She didn’t have a wife doing all the life admin for him it was all done

... enjoy awkward silence...

Excellent advice. I never fill those gaps.

.. as I had a narky reminder email from a male client..

Send a narky reply.

He has set the tone, if it is to be be "nark" then give the fucker as much nark as he can handle.

Although then he’ll hold his hands up in mock injury at your tone... and mutter passive aggressively that there was no need to snap and is it the time of the month...?

Searabbit I'm trying unfortunately a lot of what hasn't been done is fundamental things that a business should be doing, like watching the cash, monitoring that production costs don't spiral, nett legislative requirements. I think it's also a symptom of having the wrong people promoted into positions of power and never holding anyone to account.

I tried the let things drop today but I almost can't because otherwise it could affect my livelihood, don't get me wrong I have an amazing opportunity that very few have but I gave up a stable secure job to do this and have put my whole family under financial stress.

I'm between a rock and a hard place I'm not seen as being worthy of promotion because I do all the unexciting (non masculine) things but if don't do them it used against me not to promote or combined with the fact that I don't do sales and leave it to the staff who are paid often more than me to do that side while I sort out making sure we can deliver a product within all the parameters the world requires.

I'd appreciate so insight into how I win my fight with the misogynistic lot... Including my father!

.. and mutter passive aggressively that there was no need to snap and is it the time of the month...?

Then you'd cut and paste that drivel and send it to his wife/girlfriend/nanny/work colleagues etc so people could see what a monumental shit-heel their boy is...

Don't be doormatted!