How not to 'fill the gaps' for men

[daringdoris]

Inspired by the discussion on the Billy Bragg thread about left-wing men thinking that women are just there to make the tea and make sure there's enough paint for the placards, and Blibbyblobby on the 'Diana' thread, who said you've never been a professional woman stepping up to do boring admin to help the team because someone has to do it then realising the men don't even register you've been filling the gaps for them

I've realised I do this. The men around me are nice people, but now I think about it, nearly all the boring admin in a venture we're involved with is left to me. It is voluntary work, but in a context where we have to be extremely professional and well organised.

I really want to not only stop doing it, but get them to realise that the gaps are being filled by (almost) the only girl in the venture. Is it possible? Has anybody done it?

I'm happy to be pointed towards an existing thread if this discussion's been done to death already.

The point of support staff/ secretarial staff is to support the higher up person. Your sister should be telling the support staff what she wants them to do and reporting them to their line- manager if they don't. If she isn't capable of doing that she needs to assess her own role and capabilities.
@DidoLamenting that’s a bit harsh. In my old workplace only the Directors had a PA but the PAs were allowed to help the Associates if they chose to. Funnily enough they never had time to help any of the female executives only the male ones. There is a lot of everyday sexism in the so-called modern corporate world.

OP great thread, thank you.

Interesting thread, thank you

I an the top female in my company. I regularly spot that an important meeting has been organised but the top bods have not bothered booking a meeting room.
I know they will take the meeting room regardless and kick out others in it. This will annoy others.
So I can pre empt it by booking the room and giving others notice of not having that meeting room. Or let it go and create bad impression of the company.
So I do it. For the company good (and every time I tell the blokes to book a room) and to keep rest of staff happier.

I think the point is, burnoutbabe, that it's not women's responsibility to mop up after men. It's lovely that you take time to make your company look good and not piss off other staff, but surely it's everybody's responsibility to do that? The men don't have to think of things like that because they've got a woman doing it for them. No matter how senior she is, she'll pick up the slack. Doesn't help with equality at all.

Minute taking can actually give you a lot of power imo.

You get to clarify decisions or actions 'for the minutes' making sure it is clear exactly who is doing what by when so people can't weasel out later.

You can also ensure that your views/input are clearly documented.

(Though maybe this only works if you are seen as an equal in the first place.)

that’s a bit harsh. In my old workplace only the Directors had a PA but the PAs were allowed to help the Associates if they chose to. Funnily enough theyneverhad time to help any of the female executives only the male ones. There is a lot of everyday sexism in the so-called modern corporate world

Not harsh at all. It is still up to the associates to speak up about this. I have no time for women making themselves martyrs.

Wow, I have been a filler for years...I'm going to stop

If transwomen don't get all the boring admin dumped on them, they should most definitely be protesting.

Yes, minutes is a bit of a dual edged sword.

When attending meetings at one company, I actually stopped taking a notepad because I would be expected to take the notes and send them round (all nominally at the same level of seniority - all blokes but me and one other woman).

In my current job, as a consultant, I'm more of a facilitator anyway, so I arrange the meetings, set the agenda, and chair them - whilst taking notes (easier over skype) - which I can then, as others say, selectively spin/chase up depending on my own thoughts. Can be very useful.

I try to just let the balls fall - but yes, there's a point where you're saying to yourself that this startup could succeed, if I basically think of pretty much everything - but I dont' have the time to do that, so I have to let some stuff go, that isn't even my responsibility, even though it will harm my chance of success because I just can't do everything.

Same approach I started taking at home with DP, and whilst I don't necessarily have the tidy house I'd like, at least I'm not spending hours doing the washing to save myself stepping over his heap of dirty clothes behind the door.

@MsTSwift

Dd1 wore a bra top and combats in freezing temperatures. Not my problem she wore her coat indoors and looked weird so won’t do that again

I laughed out loud... I now know what to do with my Dd1 next time...

Tork, you are brilliant!

YY, to the fucking secret Santa and lunches. 'Oh, are we not doing secret Santa this year then?' Shrug, guess not. 'We're not going out to lunch before Xmas?' Shrug, guess not. 'Did you know the printer was out of toner?' Nope.

Dd1 wore a bra top and combats in freezing temperatures. Not my problem she wore her coat indoors and looked weird so won’t do that again

I laughed out loud... I now know what to do with my Dd1 next time...

I would not be telling anyone that I had a daughter who was old enough to wear bra top and combats but who was incapable of packing appropriate clothes for a trip away. Any child over the age of around 12 should be able to think for themselves on that. Your job as a parent is to encourage them to think for themselves- not to do everything for them.

Dido, I get your point but it is hard when you’re new and these support staff who can make life extremely difficult for you if you make enemies of them...

I have found similar with the occasional middle aged veterinary receptionist with a chip on their shoulder who have worked in a practice for 20 years and have the power to make your life hell (and they do this to men too)

@DidoLamenting

Actually - she packs for herself - I was thinking more about when she goes into town without a coat etc... And if the weather is warm enough for a bra top... my totally crap and neglectful parenting won’t even be noticed...

Dido what is your problem? You have been nothing but unpleasantly aggressive on this thread. I am questioning your motives to be honest (Mra)

I suggest everyone ignores Dido s/he clearly on a wind up

Contrabassoon superb office chicken game. Much applause.

The interesting thing that happens is either the stuff is important enough that other people (men) do it. Or it isn’t. So you free more time up to meet your own objectives and spend less time assisting other people (men) hit their objectives.

Project minutes can be useful to dish out accountability, other minutes of more routine meetings are less useful.

Meetings I arrange, I sort out room, guest greeting, catering etc. If I’m invited by someone else in my department I do none of these things.

I also consistently ensure that my team don’t get landed with gap filling that should be done elsewhere. If it is specifically another teams remit - we redirect. Consistently. Eventually it stops happening.

MsTSwift

Dido what is your problem? You have been nothing but unpleasantly aggressive on this thread. I am questioning your motives to be honest (Mra)

Oh fgs- any one who expresses a different view point must be a men's rights advocate or a man. I detest the sort of door mat whining in this thread. It's just another inner Beryl isn't it?

Stand up for yourselves. It just reads as if far too many of you are more than happy to take on the doormat role and whinge about it rather than do anything about it.

Sorry to burst your silly little bubble, especially Mrs TSwift's but I am a successful business woman who simply never accepted the sort of crap too many of you seem is your allocated role in life.

Riight. You are very unconvincing. And incredibly rude.

@MsTSwift

You’re still my parenting guru

I await a shivering Dd...

I don't do secretarial type work for any men at work but I definitely notice that I ahve to talk to customers in an exhaustingly polite way all the time. I hear male colleagues saying ''who told you that!'' and ''no you won't be paid on time'' and other frank communications. I have never, ever said anything as blunt without apologising for the inconvenience, apologising for being the bearer of bad news and so on, and yet, I have been complained about twice. I know I am more polite. I KNOW IT. I am constantly listening to male colleagues pushing back and saying you'll get that when I get to it. Or that is legislation, or that's on line, read the circular. I've been complained about because the information I have relayed is not welcome. It is so sexist. I told my (male) boss and he thought I was a joan of arc, martyr getting up on the cross, but I know I'm right...

I never did this, from day one of my working life. I would be the first to volunteer for all the core projects so I’d already have too high a workload for anyone to even think for a moment I could do the admin stuff. Some one else always did it. Yes, it was usually a people pleaser, social butterfly type and usually female.
When I got into management, I ensured these tasks fell to the most junior persons regardless of sex. So everyone paid their dues.

Loving this thread! Almost wish I didn't work for an organisation that's 90% female (total 150 staff!) My boss is a woman and so is hers, and so is everyone in my office. So we all muck in to make stuff happen - and of course its a bloody efficient organisation Never run out of stuff, always clean cups and tidy meeting rooms. And no one feels put-upon

But I have been using the methods at home with two older teen boys and a incompetent DH. I can now ignore the dishwasher being badly loaded and the laundry baskets overflowing because they are the kids' chores and it's not good for them to have it done for them. I also don't empty DH's wardrobe of his empty wooden hangers so his shirts get returned to him doubled-up on the cheap plastic hangers he hates. It took about 3 months but I've noticed he occasionally takes the empty ones out now 👍

DONT FILL THOSE GAPS is my new mantra

I am a champ of avoiding tasks I don't want to do. I had to learn this skill as the oldest daughter in a big family. I definitely agree with the vague "not my department" look, with not getting mad but not taking responsibility, either, with just not filling the damned gaps. Life is too short.

Am almost certain Dido has not been in the company of your average 13 year old girl 😁 that doesn’t include the violin playing jumper wearing sort I mean the other sort 😁😁