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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Patrick Harvie MSP tweet look at the responses!

61 replies

jen1wren · 04/03/2020 22:54

Patrick Harvie πŸ‡ͺπŸ‡ΊπŸŒˆ (@patrickharvie) Tweeted:
An MSP just tried to effectively ban the word cisgender from Parliament. I know & respect that some people don't accept it or identify with it, and I used it yesterday in a way which positively reflected that. But many do identify with it, and that should be respected too. t.co/l8V6wNK4Uo twitter.com/patrickharvie/status/1235263009108480000?s=20

OP posts:
Violetparis · 05/03/2020 09:27

Have possible changes to the GRA in England and Wales been dropped ? Would love to see it debated in the House of Commons to see which MPs would stand up for women.

ErrolTheDragon · 05/03/2020 09:29

Just watched the video. Has no one in the Scottish Parliament ever studied Latin? This particle is pronounced "chees", not "sis".

Chemists pronounce it sis. But we also know that a trans and a cis isomer are different compounds with different properties. Using 'Cis' to try to make women a subclass of themselves, with trans another valid subclass is a completely and utterly bogus back construction.

Danceswithwarthogs · 05/03/2020 09:34

If TWAW and there’s apparently Hmm no difference, why would they use cis woman at all? It seems like a downgrade to me (new pence vs old pence) a subclass of a vague, biologically inaccurate collective grouping.

It would be idiotic to start calling mammals lacto mammals to distinguish them from mammals that are actually birds identifying as mammals. The lacto bit would be unnecessary because the animal always was and still is a mammal, no extra explanation needed.

Although it’s dangerous territory making comparisons with other forms of discrimination/racism etc, the β€˜I’m fine with being called a cis man’ argument is similar to saying - β€˜I’m fine with the term β€˜gammon’ so it’s fine for me to use racist language against someone else’... well no, it clearly isn’t.

Mockerswithnoknockers · 05/03/2020 09:37

Its pseudoscience. The obvious parallel is the 19th century (and well into the 20th) misappropriation of the biological term race or sub-species to distinguish between people from different climates.

TheRealMcKenna · 05/03/2020 09:37

Using 'Cis' to try to make women a subclass of themselves, with trans another valid subclass is a completely and utterly bogus back construction.

Well said.

terryleather · 05/03/2020 09:37

PH is one of my MSPs.

This was shoved through my door the other day.

It gave me the radge so badly I had to take action and so I did some re-designing...

Childish I know, yet strangely satisfying.

Patrick Harvie MSP tweet look at the responses!
Patrick Harvie MSP tweet look at the responses!
Mockerswithnoknockers · 05/03/2020 09:38

That is Turner Prize shortlist material: 'A bold and provocative statement about our times...'

Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons · 05/03/2020 09:40

As per PP the β€œsis” pronunciation is from chemistry. (used to describe the relative position of two things so it never made any bloody sense in its β€œgender” use anyway.)

Harvey is a right wee scrote isn’t he?

terryleather · 05/03/2020 09:40

I'm so pleased my years at art school were not wasted Mockers!

It's a ladydick btw, just in case anyone was wondering...Grin

Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons · 05/03/2020 09:41

X posted with the art! A vivid reimagining Grin

terryleather · 05/03/2020 09:55

"Harvey is a right wee scrote isn’t he?^"
^
I hope I've managed to capture that in my artwork Gibbons Grin

BringbackLang · 05/03/2020 09:56

Honestly, the man is a twonk.

Gibbonsgibbonsgibbons · 05/03/2020 09:57

Gifted you are terry gifted!

Melioration · 05/03/2020 09:58

In our Latin lessons at school, c was always a hard c, so cis would have been β€˜kis’ Grin

I only did Latin up to 3rd year, but loved it.

Michelleoftheresistance · 05/03/2020 10:16

Well it's satisfying to watch that ratio.

Anti-Woman Activists: You will jump through all these linguistic hoops and use these words for me at all times (here's a list, I will update you as needed) and I will be very upset if you use the wrong ones because it's awful to misgender and label people and not respect their feelings and sense of identity and lived experience.

GC Women: Ok. So don't call me cis please.

Anti Woman Activists: No, we will call you whatever we feel is right for us and how you feel about this is irrelevant, you shouldn't have those feelings, you're bad for minding about this, labels are in our power not yours and we will call you what you are in our eyes according to the evidence.

GC Women: But we can't call you what you are in our eyes according to the evidence? Or expect equal respect and reciprocity? Why is that? And this lived experience and misgendering stuff is obviously all bullshit, isn't it? Because it isn't a belief you have that is general applied to all, it's merely a tool to control others around you to do what you want. Like you keep saying this all about trans people, poor trans people, while at the same time violently berating and threatening trans people who dare say anything different to your political agenda like 'hang on a minute, females are human too, and it's reasonable to think that people identifying as women might give a fuck about the needs and issues of female people'. Wtf? This is only about the politics isn't it? Which are in essence male supremacist.

Anti-Woman Activist: Regan funded nun.

terryleather · 05/03/2020 10:21

Aww shucks Gibbons ..

It helps having such an inspiring subject for my creativity

ScrimshawTheSecond · 05/03/2020 10:22

Go on, Elaine Smith!

jen1wren · 05/03/2020 10:52

I've sent her an email thanking her for standing up for women. All MSPs emails are on the Scottish Parliament website.

OP posts:
334bu · 05/03/2020 13:11

I sent the presiding officer ( one of my MSps) an email this morning expressing my disappointment at his allowing the use of "ciswomen" in the Parliament . What next can we expect... CisScottish, cis - any ethnic minority/religious group?

jen1wren · 05/03/2020 13:13

@335bu Oh, good call. I'll do that too.

OP posts:
Needmoresleep · 05/03/2020 13:36

All this Latin.

It makes you think.....

Was queer ideology dreamt up by a bunch of former public school boys?

(FWIW DCs school had it's own version of Latin. And 'Latin prayers' in their school timetable a couple of times a week. No idea how they pronounced 'cis' and sadly, despite that grounding, I suspect neither DC will have any idea either.)

Throughthegate · 05/03/2020 17:10

I was also a Green-for-my-second vote person in Scottish parliament elections, but I stopped when the insanity and disregard for women became apparent.
Can I ask, if we email an MSP do they get to read them do you think or does an assistant read them first?
I'm just wondering how confidential it is.

Mockerswithnoknockers · 05/03/2020 17:17

If we email an MSP do they get to read them do you think or does an assistant

It's down to the individual. Govt. Ministers are likely to be busy but might still do some of their own email. The rest will run their offices as they think fit. You get what you vote for.

LambriniSocialist · 05/03/2020 17:22

I love how they are all 'it's just a descriptor ladies, calm down, I'm going to carry on using it anyway' when women object to cis...

But Christ forbid that one uses 'he/him' to describe someone who is male but who 'feels like a woman on the inside'. That is 'literal violence'. I mean, I'm pretty sure that 'he/him' is 'just a descriptor' for a human who has XY chromosomes, has a penis, and produces sperm isn't it?

It just shows that this whole thing is so not a two way street.

Throughthegate · 05/03/2020 17:24

I'm not sure what "you get what you vote for" means? I'm not thinking of emailing my own MSP (already done that, not happy with response!) but emailing to show support for some others - I suppose I'm asking could just name and address be put on a "horrible feminist alert" due to doing this.
Though I'm probably on one anyway, so should just crack on Smile

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