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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Freddy McConnell appeal today (Transman who wants to be registered as their child's father) *Title edited by MNHQ*

523 replies

MrsSnippyPants · 04/03/2020 14:32

Haven't seen anything about this and it just popped up on Sky News. Hearing continues tomorrow

Newspaper report here
www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/transgender-man-who-gave-birth-21629478

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
R0wantrees · 04/03/2020 22:59

If this appeal is successful will this give the green light for trans women to be listed as “mothers” on birth certificates?

It must do, otherwise it is discriminatory.

And, for my part, I think this is the reason behind it. It is male born individuals driving this, not female.

Presumably if successful it could also be used to argue for one/ two men listed as parents in the case of surrogacy?

The facts of a child's birth are unique & having an accurate record is part of the Safeguarding framework.

Untethering mothers from birth certificates puts children & the woman who has given birth to them at risk.

Clymene · 04/03/2020 23:03

It's a very good question of who is paying for all this litigation

TorkTorkBam · 04/03/2020 23:18

So Freddie wants the baby's birth certificate to reflect Freddie's parental role.

It's not the mum's bloody Facebook relationship status "it's complicated".

Antibles · 04/03/2020 23:31

Untethering mothers from birth certificates Shit, yes.

Handy for surrogacy, indeed.

I'm feeling the misogyny behind it strongly now too. I bet there are a few men out there that unconsciously really resent the fact that the mother always gets to be listed on the birth certificate and is 100% percent certain of her biological link. Even in this era of genetic testing, you still need the mother's consent to get a paternity test done if you're not on the certificate. What an outrage, having to just take a woman's word for it all these millennia, or get her permission to check if you are the father. Well, they can't change that (until they get their magic uterus transplants anyway), but they could try to take the legal power away from us. After all, we women have had it all our own way for far too long*.

*if you ignore the blood, sweat, tears, injury and death

Oncewasblueandyellowtwo · 04/03/2020 23:36

TorkTorkBam

Freddie was born female, gave birth to the child and now wants to be called father in the bc.
But I do think in one way you are correct about a 'Facebook status*
A lot of this seems to be about social validation and what better way to show it than social media.

TorkTorkBam · 04/03/2020 23:38

Nah, Fred just likes the attention. Shame Fred isn't particularly keen on the baby. Mind you, babies are absolute shits for taking all the attention so that was never going to be permitted without a fight.

Thinkingabout1t · 04/03/2020 23:48

I don't see why it should be seen as "progressive" to encourage the falsification of historical records.

The gender identity movement is responsible for many worse things, in terms of violence, intimidation, manipulation of children etc. Yet somehow a law allowing falsification of historical records is what shocks me most, in the sense of being the most surprising.

People can disagree about the justice or fairness of any particular law. But I've never heard anyone saying it ought to be legal to give false information on birth certificates, census returns etc. Even less can I imagine why any government wants to allow this. It doesn't make sense. Future historians will curse us.

Oncewasblueandyellowtwo · 04/03/2020 23:53

I think other posters are right in thinking that this is a test case.
Get rid of the word mother in law and it's open season.
Does anyone know if Mayas appel needs gardening?

Antibles · 05/03/2020 00:05

It doesn't make sense.

It only makes sense when we realise that the truth is not the movement's' goal. Motivations include pursuit of power, narcissistic manipulation of others, validation of fetishes, and misogyny, aided by a hefty dose of cowardice, social conformity and a general lack of critical thinking from the handmaidens.

It's a toxic brew.

ReinstateLangCleg · 05/03/2020 00:08

Future historians will curse us.

I agree.

DuLANGMondeFOREVER · 05/03/2020 00:29

Archeologists will still know who’s who though!

bettybeans · 05/03/2020 00:43

It’s not your document, Freddy, it belongs to your child. Your personal identity issues shouldn’t override the rights of another human being to have a full, complete and accurate record of who they are and where they came from. You’re a parent, your needs come second now. Get with the programme ffs.

Lordfrontpaw · 05/03/2020 07:27

Maybe this is a human rights issue for the child?

ChattyLion · 05/03/2020 10:00

I really want to try to understand the points being made by Freddy M’s team but I can’t follow. Are they saying because being on a birth certificate as the dad is somehow optional (?) that being the mum on the certificate should be too?
That it’s not fair that being the one who gives birth lands you with the ‘mother’ tag on the paperwork, whereas men can choose not to be on the certificate..?

This is from the Metro: www.metro.news/transgender-man-i-gave-birth-but-im-not-a-mother/1932140/

‘Hannah Markham QC, who is representing Mr McConnell, said being a ‘mother’ or a ‘father’ was no longer gender-specific.

She said: ‘In society, being a mother is a social construct and for a person trying to move away from the terms because of their gender dysphoria that is a offence to their right to private life and their identity.

‘It is the impossible dilemma between gender identification and wanting to have a family. If those titles, which we say are forced on prospective parents, (are given) they may choose not to be a parent such is the impact on them of being gendered in the wrong gender.

‘This claim is brought by a man who has given birth to a child. He filed evidence to the effect of the distress and impact on him.

‘We are talking about the impact of trans people being misgendered and it is the right and responsibility of the court to ensure that doesn’t continue. It is not a minor inconvenience; it is not a trivial matter; it is significant.’

Mr McConnell says the ruling breaches his and his child’s human rights.

Ms Markham said that ‘mother’ was a ‘gendered term’ in law.

She added the last judge did not consider whether the term was a ‘sociological construct… where the person who gives birth is a mother in both the legal and social sense (the caregiver), whilst a father can choose to accept that role, both in a legal and social way and rather than a construct based solely on biology’. The appeal continues.‘

It’s confusing because I don’t get why pregnancy and birth is apparently such a trivial detail in this argument? That takes away from the needs of all women and children, surely? Why is motherhood a thing to be distanced from? It’s not equality for anyone to trivialise the hassle, pain and risk of pregnancy and birth in order to either make men feel better about not doing it themselves, or make women feel that what they are doing in pregnancy and birth doesn’t merit any kind of attention or support. Plus children usually really are very interested in who gave birth to them at some point in their lives. There’s no escaping that.

Thisismytimetoshine · 05/03/2020 10:05

I really can’t get my head around “being called a mother is an offence to their right to private life and their identity”. As if 9 months of antenatal appointments whilst calling themselves a man kept their gender notions under wraps?

Datun · 05/03/2020 10:19

As if 9 months of antenatal appointments whilst calling themselves a man kept their gender notions under wraps?

And filming it from start to finish for a documentary, and then giving interviews in all the papers about your court case 🙄

OhHolyJesus · 05/03/2020 10:30

Mother is a sex-based term.
Gender is a social construct based on sex-based stereotypes.
Language such as 'gendered-term' is not helpful as the word 'gender' has lost all meaning.

I agree with PP that this is about human rights for the child and if Freddy isn't the full-time primary career the Freddy's son and it is the GPS caring for the boy then I would argue that Freddy is only a parent in name and not in practise, particularly if Freddy is not even living with the child and the birth certificate matters less compared to having a loving mother/father so does it really matter what it says for Freddy's purposes?

I hope Freddy's mother and step father are in good health and able to raise this little boy as he is really little and it's not only tough but they have a long way to go with the additional concern for Freddy's mental health.

DuLANGMondeFOREVER · 05/03/2020 10:30

And then founding a non-profit to talk about ‘Queer parenting’ and offering yourself as a speaker for hire...

DuLANGMondeFOREVER · 05/03/2020 10:33

Oh, and getting sponsored by Dove Baby

Freddy McConnell appeal today (Transman who wants to be registered as their child's father) *Title edited by MNHQ*
Freddy McConnell appeal today (Transman who wants to be registered as their child's father) *Title edited by MNHQ*
Freddy McConnell appeal today (Transman who wants to be registered as their child's father) *Title edited by MNHQ*
R0wantrees · 05/03/2020 10:34

This reply has been deleted

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Datun · 05/03/2020 10:34

Does anyone know any more about the grandparents raising the child. It all seems a bit weird given Freddy's focus.

DuLANGMondeFOREVER · 05/03/2020 10:39

From Freddy’s Instagram it looks like Freddy’s child still lives with Freddy. Freddy’s mum seems to do a lot of childcare but that’s true of many nanas of single parents.

Datun · 05/03/2020 10:43

Ah ok thanks. I thought it would be very odd for Freddy not to be with the child after him being pretty much the focus of their public existence.

R0wantrees · 05/03/2020 10:43

I listened to a podcast with Freddy McConnell yesterday.

In it McConnell self-describes as 'just another Dad who's gone to work' while child is being cared for.
Also elsewhere that the background was growing up in a Naval family.

DuLANGMondeFOREVER · 05/03/2020 10:48

Freddy will soon have a podcast of Freddyself’s own.

instagram.com/freddy.mcconnell?igshid=edpxors1q7n