Suzanne Moore- The Guardian on Selina Todd

[Ontheblackhill]

Presumably you have all seen this......

www.theguardian.com/society/commentisfree/2020/mar/02/women-must-have-the-right-to-organise-we-will-not-be-silenced

Suzanne is amazing.
All ❤️ To her.

Jane Clare Jones is asking on Twitter for comments and thank yous to be collated to pass on to Kath Viner, just in case anyone is interested.

For enabling the publication I mean.

Looks like it was kicking off in the Graun editorial meeting over Moore's article.

Moore and Hadley Freeman win on points?

order-order.com/2020/03/03/guardian-editorial-conference-descends-trans-row-moore-article/

@Xiaoxiong - thanks, fully agree - sorry I sounded off, I'm so defensive on this topic, so tired of reading be kind and be nice. It's a large mountain to climb alright - who would have thought 10 years ago this would even have been an issue. The ideology has spread faster than coronavirus.

Thanks for that, Freespeecher - had a good old chuckle over that. But who will employ Jess now? It strikes me that Jess is utterly unemployable and that only soft-hearted liberals like the Guardian would consider taking her on in the first place.

The article has been tweeted again by The Guardian. It will be automatically set up to to do that to an extent but that says to me that they know it will get a lot more clicks. Interesting.

Just donated to the Guardian for the first time ever. Can't quite believe it as I stopped reading it 15 years ago when I got tired of being told what to think. But if we all chip in a couple of quid it will send a HUGE message.

I don't know how aware Viner et al are of how zealous they are in deleting comments that don't toe the party line.

As a general point, there's a lot of attention that is being paid to the reality of algorithmic inequalities that can arise unintentionally. There is evidence of sabotaged algorithms that were actively designed to achieve an end (the recent revelation about the ICE detention algorithm).

There is a move towards natural language processing as a means of automating some of the early passes in moderation. If it's based on the moderation policy of some humans (and that data is used to train machine learning sets) it would be remarkably easy to have an algorithm that moderates only one side of the discussion.

Just donated to the Guardian for the first time ever. Can't quite believe it as I stopped reading it 15 years ago when I got tired of being told what to think. But if we all chip in a couple of quid it will send a HUGE message

It is a bit premature for that, I think.......this is going to take years to dismantle.

I think they owe us a looaaaaaaaads. No donations from me.

Jess’s tweet is hilarious and baffling in equal measure . Grown adults surely don’t actually think like this ? “Someone disagreed with me so now I feel UNSAFE and I’m going to cry “ .. it reminds me of the teacher in Class Dismissed who hides under the desk.

Jess’s tweet is hilarious and baffling in equal measure . Grown adults surely don’t actually think like this ? “Someone disagreed with me so now I feel UNSAFE and I’m going to cry “ .. it reminds me of the teacher in Class Dismissed who hides under the desk

If an actual grown woman behaved like that in the workplace she'd no doubt be told to grow a pair.

Clicks drive editorial
If people keep clicking and sharing and making positive noises about Suzanne's article
the Graun's team will know
and as there are a LOT MORE women than there are trans activists, we can make a difference
we must not silence ourselves

Just donated to the Guardian

I did too; I donated (online) the £2.20 cost of today's paper, and tweeted Kath Viner that I'd done so in order to pay for Suzanne Moore's article.

Also sent a small one-off donation based on this, and tweeted why (did the same for The Morning Star, before they capitulated). Not about to take out a subscription but just want to show my support in whatever way I can.

We do not need to publish or hear two sides of this - there is only one reality, women are adult females with XX chromosomes. We need to ensure sex based rights are upheld and maintained in law.

So long as there are people in the population who want to argue the other side of this, they should be heard. That doesn't mean any yahoo needs to have their ramblings published, but it's no more appropriate for GC people to say no debate than for TRAs

Nice additional detail not in the Guido piece.

why are all of you so bloody grateful and amazed by this? The Guardian has been ignoring or minimising GC voices for years, and one article makes you so happy?
Just ONE article, and it's like 'oh. isn't it wonderful, I must thank them'. Are your memories THAT short?
I won't be buying it again, I know which news sources care about Womens Rights. (Clue - it's not the Guardian)

I think it's completely bizarre that an adult would complain about controversial social or political opinions in a newspaper. "Unsafe" in that context is crazy, does she thing SM is going to trip her walking down the hall or something?

I think what is so diappointing about this is that the Guardian, like other news papers, isn't really about news. In the same as tv news has descended into totally inane people putting forward their opinions rather than actual facts.

I stopped buying the Guardian (pre trans issues) when I realised I was paying for primarily advertising and somebody (usually a young relative of an existing employee) to write stuff that would be a disgrace to a 6th former. (eg their housing coverage is never building on the knowledge that the Guardian must have from decades of coverage, but it the excited discovery by an intern that there is a "problem")

When CiF was first launched it was very much like twitter, anything about women, let alone feminism, would have the much favoured men leaping in to explain the issue was men hating feminazi.

I cant even remember how many log ins I created to just make comments about facts about women's groups, etc., etc.. So many women just gave up commenting. The problem was it did generate clicks because the MRAs just attracted like minded misogynists.

Eventually the Guardian worked out they had alienated women, stopped most articles about women / feminism from having comments. And only allowed those logged in to "like" etc..

But in effect the inherent bias of male priviledge meant CiF had become a woman free zone.

When you add in Katherine Viner's committment to queer politics which then introduced a pro trans narrative, they have felt they have had a free run because of course the trans narrative just confirms the MRAs prejudices.

On one level it doesn't really matter, because when I looked at the circulation figures (link posted last night) they have a tiny readership.

Sometimes I think we need to work out where our energy should be directed, and not let ourselves get trapped into a cul de sac.

Not just the Guardian with a tiny readership, but also twitter which is in fact one of the least used social media platforms. I yet so many feminists seem obsessed by it.

When you think of the accumulative knowledge and politics on mumsnet where would be the most effective places to share that?

I get my news once a week in the FT. By then, the stories based on conjecture and opinion have been filtered out.
MN has educated me on Trans issues.

If ever I hoped someone had taken covert phone filming of a meeting, it is today's Guardian editorial with LOJ going puce; and the Jess resignation flounce.

Comedy gold!!

(Aside: why was Nandy supposed to be there?)

MaMa - speaking personally - I’m not amazed - I will however show gratitude and support for any chink of light being allowed through, I don’t demand a purity pledge from my news sources .

I have a subscription to The Times now, mainly around this issue as the only mainstream publication I see covering things honestly and fairly, and to provide share tokens for those that aren’t able to subscribe. If I told 20-years-ago-me I’d have a Times subscription she’d have had some very choice words. And I really don’t think I’ve changed my political leanings that much in the meantime, if anything become more lefty.

also twitter which is in fact one of the least used social media platforms.

Does seem to have hugely disproportionate sway with councils, business, media etc though. If someone doesn’t get a satisfactory response to a consumer complaint - straight on Twitter and suddenly things happen.