What do you think about the rainbow flag?

[DJLippy]

Does anyone else get a shudder when they see a rainbow flag outside a venue? Harry the Owl compared it to a Nazi flag and I'm inclined to agree.

I'm Bisexual so I should be thrilled to find all these inclusive spaces but I just feel a stab of anxiety and make a mental note to steer well clear. It's a real physiological reaction not something I can control.

A few years ago I used to love seeing the pride flag outside bars. I guess back then it actually meant something. Now I feel like it's actually a sign of exclusion - that anyone who doesn't believe that twaw is not safe there.

Also it does kind of imply that all the other venues are a threat to the LGBTQI++ people. I actually get a lot less grief being with a woman in a normie bar than I would in a gay bar. What's more its often just random cafes and shops which as far as I am aware have no gay history. Just feels like a cheap virtue signal by straight woke folk.

I'd be interested in hearing from people who are same sex attracted. Do you feel that the flag which used to represent your community been appropriated by male supremacists? Do you self exclude from spaces which fly the rainbow flag?

I do think it's notable that Sapphos is keen to ignore the LGB posters who have expressed personal disquiet about the rainbow, but will eagerly round on any person she perceives as straight as a typical example of the people who have this disquiet.

And yet is not being quite so censorious towards Wotcha, who, surprise surprise, is on an FWR thread enthusiastically scorning and 'misunderstanding' the things women here are saying, and is not LGB.

I'm not saying anyone else should draw any conclusions about that, but I know I have.

Yes Floral, I have thought the same.

Sapphos the protected characteristic is gender reassignment. You’ve coined the term “transsexual status”, that’s your interpretation of it.

Words and definitions matter, but you just keep on making up your own definitions and descriptions of things if it makes you happy.

FloralBinting it's not people I perceive to be straight, it's people who come on here, declare they are straight then moan the rainbow flag doesn't represent them and it should 'fuck off'.

I would do exactly the same if a man came on here moaning the International Women's Day flag didn't represent him and it should fuck off.

WotchaTalkinBoutWillis has managed to grasp this very simple concept.

It used to represent the LGB community.

According to stonewall the qualifications to join the LGBetc club bar has been set pretty low these days.

What an offensive message. Maybe you should do your homework re LGBT history and what it’s taken to get her. It’s not about excluding yourself from everyone, it’s about highlighting a community that is even now subjected to crimes that you don’t even know about. Homophobia has increased in the last 5 years in the U.K. , the most recent figure has seen crimes soar to an increase of 144% . Many people think gay people now have equality they should shut up and be satisfied with being tolerated but with ignorant views like yours , it seems we have a long long way to go. If you are getting upset by flags and laces I shudder to think how deep your and others homophobia is.

My sister came out when we were kids at school.

I have 35 years experience of the community thanks. It has changed a hell of a lot. It certainly didn’t include cross dressers and whatever the hell stonewall now says is part of the community.

Sappho, and you've ignored or dismissed every single LGB person on here who has talked about their negative feelings, and made repeated attempts to frame this as just 'straight people objecting to rainbow flags'.

I won't say anything about Wotcha grasping simple concepts because it would be uncharitable of me.

Sapphos, you have not answered my question about why you are so against straight women who post on a thread "for lesbians", but would have no problem if a man, saying that they identified as a lesbian, were to post.

Also you have got it wrong. People are not posting saying the rainbow flag does not represent them. They are saying that the rainbow flag appears, sinister, co-erced, commercial or whatever. If I were lesbian, even if I considered rainbows to represent me, I would be worried that so many other women, gay or not, saw it in a negative light.

It sounds as if you care more about when men think than what women think.

Sapphos, you have not answered my question about why you are so against straight women who post on a thread "for lesbians", but would have no problem if a man, saying that they identified as a lesbian, were to post.

The rainbow flag isn't just for lesbians. It's for all of LGBT. If a male identified as a lesbian they would fall under the T and therefore the rainbow flag represents them.

The rainbow flag does not represent straight people so I feel it is incredibly arrogant of straight people to come on here and moan about it not centring their feelings.

FloralBinting not sure what your problem is with me but as your last post directed at me was deleted I'm assuming it's personal. Not going to engage any more.

Still not an answer. Try again. Why do you seem to centre men, albeit those who may identify as women, over actual women?

Maybe she thinks you’re a passive aggressive homophobe ?

Why do you seem to centre men, albeit those who may identify as women, over actual women?

Absolute rubbish. Never posted anything of the sort!

Asbo, which would be an interesting mirror response to my opinion of her, so that'd be a coincidence. Come here off a link from Twitter have you? Bless.

Would you object to men who identified as lesbians posting on this thread?

You do object when women, who don’t identify as lesbian, post.

twitter.com/WelshGasDoc/status/1236087465674452992

Twitter thread about rainbow lanyards that casts light on Pink News item mentioned above - as ever, difficult to follow the offshoot conversations but usual references to triggering and bigots.

Quote: Does anyone else get a shudder when they see a rainbow flag outside a venue? Harry the Owl compared it to a Nazi flag and I'm inclined to agree.

Do you have any idea how offensive this comment is?!

Thousands of gay men were murderd by the nazis and hundreds of thousands were incarcerated. Comparing the rainbow flag, a symobl of hope and inclusivity with the swastika is frankly sick!!

You haven't read the thread ANTIFASCIST - women are getting threats of rape and violence by people waving that flag.

For many women the rainbow flag is no longer a symbol of hope or inclusivity - thanks to organisations like Stonewall, it has come to represent the erasure of women.

What utter rubbish @theflushedzebra! That is totally untrue and you know it!

But apart from that you have completely missed the point of my comment. Comparing the RAINBOW flag of the Nazis is truly offensive and unforgivable given the history of suffering LGBT+ people faced at the hands of the Nazis.

Would you compare the Israeli flag to the nazi flag?! Ofcourse not!

Welcome to Mumsnet ANTIFACIST

Have you seen the Bunbury threads?

Owen, we were wondering when you would join us

Thousands of gay men were murderd by the nazis and hundreds of thousands were incarcerated. Comparing the rainbow flag, a symbol of hope and inclusivity with the swastika is frankly sick

That may well be an over exaggerated analogy - but the rainbow flag has now come to represent repression and totalitarianism to many. I now instantly recoil and reject. To me it suggests conformity under threat of exclusion, and the closing down of free thought and speech.It has become the opposite of that which it intended.

Antifacist, not antifascist?

I’ve just been Googling facism and Urban Dictionary says:

“A subculture of racism, instead of classifying people by race, the facist judges people by how attractive he/she finds the face of other people. It is not to be confused with "fascist" which is extreme idiotic loyalty to an imaginary state which may or may not exist.”

Learn something new every day.

the history of suffering LGBT+ people faced at the hands of the Nazis

And yet the fledgling stirrings of that same impulse are now in force against women and lesbians. All totalitarian movements start somewhere.....and already we see people being hauled before police for so-called 'hate speech'; for 'wrong think'; for 'dog whistles'; for speaking truth.......for not conforming to ideology.

Drawing conclusions about me as I disagree?
Oookay, you do that then Floral. Is that one of the tin hat theories you like such as we must know each other as we agree and you don't?
Suit yourself.