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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What do you think about the rainbow flag?

669 replies

DJLippy · 28/02/2020 12:13

Does anyone else get a shudder when they see a rainbow flag outside a venue? Harry the Owl compared it to a Nazi flag and I'm inclined to agree.

I'm Bisexual so I should be thrilled to find all these inclusive spaces but I just feel a stab of anxiety and make a mental note to steer well clear. It's a real physiological reaction not something I can control.

A few years ago I used to love seeing the pride flag outside bars. I guess back then it actually meant something. Now I feel like it's actually a sign of exclusion - that anyone who doesn't believe that twaw is not safe there.

Also it does kind of imply that all the other venues are a threat to the LGBTQI++ people. I actually get a lot less grief being with a woman in a normie bar than I would in a gay bar. What's more its often just random cafes and shops which as far as I am aware have no gay history. Just feels like a cheap virtue signal by straight woke folk.

I'd be interested in hearing from people who are same sex attracted. Do you feel that the flag which used to represent your community been appropriated by male supremacists? Do you self exclude from spaces which fly the rainbow flag?

OP posts:
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Knowhowufeel2 · 05/03/2020 21:10

I now detest it and see it as a virtue signalling, trans led, lesbophobic ideology.
It makes me cringe (and inwardly groan) and I avoid going to places, or speaking to people, that display it.

Knowhowufeel2 · 05/03/2020 21:31

It's definitely been taken over by corporations. I think it's now about increasing profits by virtue signalling, rather than showing solidarity.

SapphosRock · 05/03/2020 21:33

Knowhowufeel2 how do you feel about it as a member of the LGBT community? Or are you yet another straight person dropping in to slag it off?

DuLANGMondeFOREVER · 05/03/2020 23:47

All that ‘stay in your lane’ stuff seems to be dying off, thankfully.

Needmoresleep · 06/03/2020 00:00

Sapphos, you are very rude.

Have you not noticed the irony. You are keen to police this thread of straight women to ensure it is lesbian only, yet seem to see no problem in transwomen invading lesbian spaces.

WotchaTalkinBoutWillis · 06/03/2020 00:20

I can kind of see her point - straight people saying "rainbows can go fuck itself" or some saying that it doesn't represent them.
Um, well it wouldn't, would it.
(I'm straight, btw)

Knowhowufeel2 · 06/03/2020 00:21

Actually, Sapphos, things are so ridiculous now that according to Stonewall, most people's 'identity' would come under the lgbq+ banner so my opinion is valid.

BUT

I was just offering my opinion as me, not as an identity or a sexuality.

Not sure why you're policing this thread though, Sapphos, and I didn't realise that only certain posters views were welcomed. Confused

Also, not being part of the same 'group' doesn't mean you can't empathize with them or support them.

Same as being part of the same group doesn't mean you empathize either. Some people are just arses.

ReinstateLangCleg · 06/03/2020 00:23

ReinstateLangCleg are you actually aware of the Pride protests? They were unapologetically done with an anti trans agenda.

I forgot to come back on this, sorry. I think I did already comment on a flyer related to this posted upthread.

Here are a couple of other articles for anyone interested in why Get the L Out were protesting at London Pride.

Written by Jo Bartosch:

"Explaining why she took action, one of the campaigners explained:

“We protested the LGBT movement as a whole and Pride specifically because many lesbians feel erased and betrayed by a movement which claimed to represent us. The L in “LGBT” is meaningless when the LGBT organisations claim that a man can identify as ‘lesbian.’

“We either respect women’s sexual boundaries to refuse penises under whatever name or we don’t . And right now the LGBT organisations and Sadiq Khan naming lesbians “hateful” and “anti-trans” for daring to say “no” is disgraceful, misogynistic and anti-lesbian.”

As the LGBT movement has grown to encompass ever more niche identities, women who are exclusively attracted to women have been side-lined. Effectively, same-sex attraction has been redefined to mean same ‘gender’ attraction, in order not to exclude transwomen who identify as lesbian. There is now a hostile take-over of the lesbian community, waved on by well-funded organisations like Stonewall which were supposed to exist to advocate for lesbians.

The news that we are not one big happy LGBT glitter family has come as a shock to many of our well-meaning straight allies. ‘Get the L Out’ have had their inconvenient lesbianism ignored and the group have been lazily branded as ‘anti-trans’. There has been no attempt to understand who the group was at Pride London yesterday and why they protested."

conatusnews.com/pride-london-lesbian-activism/

Written by Angela C Wild:

"When a few of my lesbian friends and I decided to march uninvited in front of the Pride march in London last year to promote lesbian visibility within an increasingly misogynistic and anti-lesbian gay, bisexual and transgender (GBT) movement, we had no idea this would cause such a huge backlash from the GBT community itself.

We had no idea that we would be attacked by officials of GBT organisations as well as by most of the British press.

From being called “transphobic bigots”, “hateful” and “Nazis” who should be “dragged out by our saggy tits”, to having our personal details published on social media and receiving rape and death threats, the supposedly progressive mainstream seemed to have slightly overreacted to the fact that a small group of lesbians were simply marching at Pride in London.

Our crime? We simply dared to reclaim the right to define what a lesbian is.

The definition is – and should remain – “a woman – in the biological sense of the word – exclusively emotionally and sexually attracted to women”.

As lesbians we retain the right to say what we find sexually attractive, irrespective of gender identity, thank you very much.

The fact that such a statement is now labelled hateful says much about the misogyny of those who condemned us.

Lesbians in 2019 are constantly vilified and excluded from the GBT community for stating their exclusive sexual preference.

Interestingly, we are routinely told there is no research to support our stance by a GBT movement that is funded precisely to do this research and stand up for us, but is clearly too busy looking the other way or burying its head in the sand to care."

news.trust.org/item/20190412100802-6md1q/

Thinkingabout1t · 06/03/2020 00:34

A good question, OP.I realise I feelthe same way as you and most people posting here. It used to delight me. Now it means angry, violent men and I avoid places where I see it. That is so sad.

Also, I agree and sympathise with the reader who says I’m still waiting for this level of allegiance and support to be stated for people with learning disabilities, those of us who are deaf, partially-sighted, have vision problems etc.etc.

Thinkingabout1t · 06/03/2020 00:39

I imagine the construction industry is full of toxic masculinity.

SapphosRock, is there any ordinary person you don’t despise?

WotchaTalkinBoutWillis · 06/03/2020 00:52

Eh, people on the feminist board are sticking up for toxic masculinity behaviour and taking offence at someone saying that construction sites are a likely place for toxic masculinity behaviour?
Well, that's a new one at least

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 06/03/2020 00:55

Remember when lads on bikes in Moss Side who accepted flyers handed to them was interpreted as a scary motorcycle gang by TRAs? I'm not quite sure who they do like, other than transwomen and other non trans TRAs.

theflushedzebra · 06/03/2020 01:02

I wonder how some women on the feminist section can persistently centre males in feminism, purely because they identity as women, and say they ARE women.

Give me toxic masculinity any day - that can be countered. That can be recognised as the sexist crap it is. But as soon as a biological male identifies as a woman, things suddenly become very different.

As for the rainbow flag, it now makes me feel anxious, because it means people who will most likely call me "terf" for centering women in feminism, and may even say I should have my mouth stapled shut, or die in a grease fire.

theflushedzebra · 06/03/2020 01:11

I took my DS to open days at various universities recently. Southampton was most recent - after the very pleasant surprise at not being directed to gender neutral toilets (they were all M or F where we were), we were taken on a tour by someone wearing a rainbow lanyard. In times gone by, I would have been "oh that's cool" - now I just feel dread.

It means Stonewall and Mermaids, it means people banging on windows of women's meetings, deplatforming women, it means police being called on women because of a comment they made on twitter. All of the crap I have watched women and feminists, who don't centre trans ideology in everything - have been put through over the past few years - it means all of it.

Goosefoot · 06/03/2020 03:59

Eh, people on the feminist board are sticking up for toxic masculinity behaviour and taking offence at someone saying that construction sites are a likely place for toxic masculinity behaviour?

Objecting to branding a whole industry as having a bad attitude is defending toxic masculinity?

Binterested · 06/03/2020 06:52

I’ve just looked round probably 10 schools - private and state for my son (10). All the private school had posters (one had one in every single classroom) saying LGBTQ+ Rights are Human Rights. Nothing on women. Nothing on race. Nothing on disability of course.

I wanted to ask the heads - what is it you will be telling my 11 year old about queer rights? I mean really? What exactly do you mean by this and have you thought carefully about this in relation to 11 year olds ? I know they haven’t given it a moment’s thought but the nice Stonewall people came in and gave the kids some nice posters so job done.

It’s the equivalent of the Kitchener poster ‘Your Country Needs You’ - propaganda aimed at children and young people who are eager to conform with their peers.

Lordfrontpaw · 06/03/2020 07:48

Our school isn’t too bad. They have had a couple of speaker in that I think are not suitable at all. However they do try to get a range of speakers in (the pupils aren’t allowed to interrupt or disrupt) so I think it’s more to teach them resilience and to listen to arguments (then argue with them when they have finished).

There was a display for - I think was woman’s day - all book covers about inspiring women, with the obligatory 2 on trans women.

It’s a boys school in the lower years then girls come on for 6th form. They (the girls) are very intelligent and questioning lot, so the whole rainbow doesn’t seem to have quite taken hold.

I did look on the website to see what policies they had regarding bullying etc and of course, the emphasis was on trans (so it ok to pick on a kid in the wheelchair but heaven forfend you would look sideways at...?)

FannyCann · 06/03/2020 07:56

What about the state schools Binterested
Surely they must have been captured too?
I would have been outraged. I'm so relieved my DD's (22,19) completed their education just before the school takeover. Of course the one at uni tells me to be kind....

We looked around Oxford Brookes a couple of weeks ago. Mix of loo arrangement, single sex plus some gender neutral. Rainbow lanyards compulsory apparently.

Binterested · 06/03/2020 07:59

Not so much but they were boys’ schools and one was a free school so I think that makes a difference.

Xanthangum · 07/03/2020 07:03

An all-out assault on Caro by Pink News - mentions this thread

www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/03/06/caroline-farrow-nhs-rainbow-lanyards-badges-misogynistic-pride-lgbt-twitter/

Pink News - hi there! Thanks for joining us. Perhaps you should be asking yourselves what has happened recently that something so positive should now be making former supporters shudder.

#whotrashedtherainbow?

RedToothBrush · 07/03/2020 08:01

Is it about branding and marketing campaigns for a liberal identity image or about support for LGBT people?

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/lgbt-gay-lesbian-bisexual-uk-ons-latest-2018-a9380876.html
Number of people identifying as lesbian, gay or bisexual up 76,000 in a year, figures show
More than one in 50 people now identify as LGB as figure hits record high

People aged 16 to 24 years were most likely to identify as LGB in 2018, at more than one in 25 (4.4 per cent), with people being statistically less likely to do so the older they are, according to the ONS.

And

Laura Russell, director of campaigns, strategy and research at Stonewall, said the charity welcomed the rise in the number of people identifying as lesbian, gay and bisexual, as it showed the "progress we’re making towards equality", but added that the figures still wouldn't be an "entirely accurate" representation of the number of LGB people in the UK.

How does a rise in numbers of LGBT identifing people have anything to do with reaching equality? It just means more people are identifing as something. It doesn't make a comment about equality. It makes it sound like the aim is for 50% of the population to identify as LBGT!!!

SapphosRock · 07/03/2020 10:43

How does a rise in numbers of LGBT identifing people have anything to do with reaching equality?

It means that society is becoming more accepting and tolerant so people are less afraid to come out as LGBT. They also face less discrimination and have laws to support their rights.

Gay marriage was only legalised in 2014 and civil partnerships in 2005. The GRA was passed in 2004. The passing of these laws is likely to have encouraged closeted LGBT people to come out, and meant younger LGBT people don't think twice about coming out. The Equality Act also protects against discrimination on the grounds of sexuality or transsexual status.

Hence the rise in LGBT identifying people.

WotchaTalkinBoutWillis · 07/03/2020 10:50

What Sapphos said, as in I think the more it's accepted by society (rightly!) the more you'll see numbers rising as they won't feel the need to "hide" so to speak as much.

NotBadConsidering · 07/03/2020 10:57

The Equality Act also protects against discrimination on the grounds of sexuality or transsexual status

Gender reassignment. Not transsexual status. Another day, another Sapphos post liberal with the facts.

SapphosRock · 07/03/2020 11:11

NotBadConsidering my understanding is a person is protected if they are about to have, are in the process of having or have had gender reassignment. So their transsexual status.

Is this wrong? Happy to be corrected if so.

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