What do you think about the rainbow flag?

[DJLippy]

Does anyone else get a shudder when they see a rainbow flag outside a venue? Harry the Owl compared it to a Nazi flag and I'm inclined to agree.

I'm Bisexual so I should be thrilled to find all these inclusive spaces but I just feel a stab of anxiety and make a mental note to steer well clear. It's a real physiological reaction not something I can control.

A few years ago I used to love seeing the pride flag outside bars. I guess back then it actually meant something. Now I feel like it's actually a sign of exclusion - that anyone who doesn't believe that twaw is not safe there.

Also it does kind of imply that all the other venues are a threat to the LGBTQI++ people. I actually get a lot less grief being with a woman in a normie bar than I would in a gay bar. What's more its often just random cafes and shops which as far as I am aware have no gay history. Just feels like a cheap virtue signal by straight woke folk.

I'd be interested in hearing from people who are same sex attracted. Do you feel that the flag which used to represent your community been appropriated by male supremacists? Do you self exclude from spaces which fly the rainbow flag?

It seems that people are surprised that the rainbow flag doesn't centre straight people and their feelings.

Actually, I think most of us are very concerned that males who are sexually attracted to females (there’s a word for that) are being centred by the ‘rainbow community’, as long as they utter the magic words ‘but I identify as a woman’, and their feelings are being prioritised over the safety and rights of same-sex attracted females.

Aside from the fact that the flag now centres heterosexual males, I think even if it did centre a homosexual minority that in itself has become a problem. The flag no longer says ‘this particular group is welcome’, it now says ‘we place this particular group above all others and prioritise their needs without consideration for vulnerable groups like disabled, elderly, children, refugees or women’.

The flag no longer says ‘this particular group is welcome’, it now says ‘we place this particular group above all others and prioritise their needs without consideration for vulnerable groups like disabled, elderly, children, refugees or women’.

What on earth are you on about? How exactly does a flag manage to say all that?

Even if it did, considering as they are mainly hung outside gay bars why it should it in any way prioritise the needs of the elderly and children who are unlikely to ever enter said bars?

So confused right now
Maybe they meant elderly gay people?!
(clutches at straws)

The GEO have finally removed the rainbow flag from their logo; it has been there for months.
For those who don't know, the GEO is the Government Equalities Office;
"The Government Equalities Office leads work on policy relating to women, sexual orientation and transgender equality. We are responsible for a range of equalities legislation."

Well LGBetc history month is coming up isn't it - so expect it to be back on for that (if not for Pride season)

It seems that people are surprised that the rainbow flag doesn't centre straight people and their feelings.

Now that is the best summary of this thread.

It seems that people are surprised that the rainbow flag doesn't centre straight people and their feelings. but in some ways, it does though doesn't it?

Are you talking about political lesbians @Lordfrontpaw? If so, I understand your point.

Political lesbianism! Have we gone through a time tunnel and landed in the 80s? Are women’s separatist communes a thing again?

Well they’re the only straight people I can think of who identify their way into oppression, colonise LGBTQ-hood, and who appropriate gay culture. Open to correction though.

I don't know what that means!

You’ll need a ye olde copy of Spare Rib to find out, Lord

I think comparing it to a Nazi flag is a bit overblown (Godwin and all that)

I do associate it these days with a strain of authoritarianism and significant misogyny where as a few years ago I would have taken a much more favourable view.

You’ll need a ye olde copy of Spare Rib to find out, Lord

now that takes me back! Good old Spare Rib.

Well they’re the only straight people I can think of who identify their way into oppression, colonise LGBTQ-hood, and who appropriate gay culture. Open to correction though.

So, to be clear, is your argument that in LGBTQ+ culture today:

Any-males-who-identify-as-lesbians = must be centred, to the point of teenage lesbians saying no to sexual advances from any such classmates should do it very quietly and politely, not mentioning the penis issue, or else it's a bit like being bigoted because she isn't validating their identity.

Females-of-a-particular-political-persuasion-who-identify-as-lesbians = must be cast out, to the point of calling them a modern acronym for evil witch, "dragging them out by their saggy tits," and none of them should never be allowed to call themselves lesbian.

Have I understood that about right?

ReinstateLangCleg I think you've got completely the wrong end of the stick.

not2daysanta was pointing out the only group of people who actively identify into the LGBT+ community are political lesbians. All other members of the community are genuinely LGBT+

Females-of-a-particular-political-persuasion-who-identify-as-lesbians = must be cast out

Political lesbians are always welcome, despite identifying their way into the community. Never heard of a political lesbian being cast out.

Lesbians activists with an anti trans agenda are obviously attacking part of the LGBT community.

You don't think there's often a whiff of the "only political lesbians would object to what's happening, as they are nasty trans-exclusionary radical feminists" whenever this is discussed (i.e. the "no true lesbian" argument)?

I think it happens all the time, in order to position us as "other" (whatever we actually think of political lesbianism).

You don't think that lesbians who get labelled TERFs are then excluded from LGBTQ+ spaces?

Oh dear ReinstateLangCleg I think you should Google political lesbianism. You clearly don't know what it is.

You don't think that lesbians who get labelled TERFs are then excluded from LGBTQ+ spaces?

Not unless they start handing out anti trans flyers and spouting rape culture accusations.

Lesbians activists with an anti trans agenda are obviously attacking part of the LGBT community.

Please may I ask you to expand on this point, and ideally back it up with some evidence.

ReinstateLangCleg are you actually aware of the Pride protests? They were unapologetically done with an anti trans agenda.

Some media coverage:

[[https://happiful.com/protestors-vile-stunt-did-not-stop-the-joy-and-love-at-london-pride-2018/
happiful.com/protestors-vile-stunt-did-not-stop-the-joy-and-love-at-london-pride-2018/]]

[[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-44757403
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-44757403]]

considering as they are mainly hung outside gay bars

No theyre not

They are all over the show...i drove past a digger about an hour ago all rainbowed up (it was awfully pretty)

But thats more the corporate takeover of the flag and what its supposed to represent

Police cars
Corporate logos
Primary schools
School zebra crossings
M&S sandwiches
Lanyards aplenty
Bunting up Tottenham Court Rd for moths last summer
Rainbow balloons all along Debenhams last summer
In fact most of Oxford st last Pride season (summer to start of term)
Flying on the top of Senate House
Flying on the top of the nurses building on Cavendish Sq
...

Ah so pointing out men are not lesbians is anti trans is it?

Parliament
CPS
NHS trusts
Supermarkets
Councils