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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Dawn Butler on R4 just now

111 replies

testing987654321 · 22/02/2020 07:48

Agrees that babies are born with a sex.

But says in response to Blair's comments about focussing on the trans issue that it keeps being brought up by the media and they [labour party] don't really want to talk about it because each time it's spoke about a trans person gets hurt.

Wtf? In what world can a party have a policy that they don't want to talk about?

OP posts:
Original poster
testing987654321 · 22/02/2020 07:50

She's an absolute liability in interviews.

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Languishingfemale · 22/02/2020 07:52

Is she talking about the Tinkerbell effect?
And if they don't want to talk about it, why write and sign pledges that threaten party members? Clueless.

donquixotedelamancha · 22/02/2020 08:02

You can listen now on BBC sounds, the brief section on gender starts around 7.38.

Butler's only real point is that it's all the media's fault for bringing this up. She 'didn't want to get into the Science' but begrudgingly admits that sex exists.

And if they don't want to talk about it, why write and sign pledges that threaten party members?

They don't want to talk about it so much that it was the number one topic at the recent labour hustings.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 22/02/2020 08:03

What was her explanation for why she said babies don't have a sex, but is now saying they do?

BovaryX · 22/02/2020 08:05

Butler's only real point is that it's all the media's fault for bringing this up. She 'didn't want to get into the Science' but begrudgingly admits that sex exists

Dawn Butler doesn't want to talk about it because when its proponents and acolytes discuss this incoherent ideology, they sound deranged. And permanently unelectable.....

LizzieSiddal · 22/02/2020 08:07

I’m just bloody thankful that women have spoken about this and brought it into the open.

I shudder to think what would have happened if we hadn’t shouted about this.

ThinEndoftheWedge · 22/02/2020 08:07

Did she say the review of Labour was an autopsy?? Grin

Dawn - you need to be dead to have an autopsy!!

bellinisurge · 22/02/2020 08:09

Just listened to it and started a thread too. I was struck by Dawn actually daring to suggest biology is real. I'm rather pathetically hoping we are seeing a shift in tone towards reality. Only a shift in tone at this stage.

borntobequiet · 22/02/2020 08:09

I don’t think I’ve ever heard this woman say anything sensible on any subject. So I suppose it’s a start.

Original poster
testing987654321 · 22/02/2020 08:10

What was her explanation for why she said babies don't have a sex, but is now saying they do?

That she obvious knows children are born as little girls or little boys but it's your gender identity which is more important.

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BovaryX · 22/02/2020 08:12

That she obvious knows children are born as little girls or little boys but it's your gender identity which is more important

Was she asked to give a clear definition of what precisely 'gender identity' means? It's infuriating that the use of incoherent language is not robustly challenged.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 22/02/2020 08:12

Did they push her at all as to how a neonate can have a gender identity? I mean, they don't seem to realize that their toes are attached at that stage so she'll have to forgive us for being a bit skeptical.

OverByYer · 22/02/2020 08:12

She said she got flustered by Richard Madely talking about penises! Hilarious

WomanIsTaken · 22/02/2020 08:13

I nearly sprayed my tea. It's cringe-worthy.

Milicentbystander72 · 22/02/2020 08:17

"Every time a child says 'I don't believe in fairies' there is a fairy somewhere that falls down dead"

This Peter Pan thinking is a good description of where the Labour Party are right now. Unbelievable.

Langsdestiny · 22/02/2020 08:20

Yes the word penis seems to cause them a few problems. I guess that's because a penis is ...real.

PronounssheRa · 22/02/2020 08:27

They don't want to talk about because every time they do they sound Batshit.

Talking about it exposes just how incoherent the whole gender movement is, and how damaging it is for women and children.

NotBadConsidering · 22/02/2020 08:33

and they [labour party] don't really want to talk about it

Thing is, you don’t have to be at all interested in the trans issue and women’s rights to be concerned, because what the trans issue demonstrates is that Labour’s hierarchy are prepared to collectively lose their minds, common sense, and all rational thought if a fearful topic comes up. It shows how cowardly they all are, shows no one is prepared to say “no” if they need to, and shows they would prefer to shut down debate than come up with workable solutions. These flaws then translate to all policies, and decisions that need to be made to run the country.

No one can possibly have any faith in them.

TheHopefulPuffin · 22/02/2020 08:37

Just delurking to shoehorn in the astonishing event on R4 Any Questions last night (21st).

Daisy Cooper Lib Dem MP said, in regards to press intrusion, "no one, whatever their gender, whatever their sex ..."

I gasped! And she said it again! And I gasped again!

BovaryX · 22/02/2020 08:38

It shows how cowardly they all are, shows no one is prepared to say “no” if they need to, and shows they would prefer to shut down debate than come up with workable solutions. These flaws then translate to all policies, and decisions that need to be made to run the country.

Well said. It's the craven sycophancy which is so explicit and frankly, so contemptible. Labour has been colonised by this lobby and its politicos are so terrified of their political career ending in a Twitter firestorm if they challenge any part of the liturgy, they prefer to go on national media and spout incoherent idiocy about babies born without sex....

BovaryX · 22/02/2020 08:41

Daisy Cooper Lib Dem MP said, in regards to press intrusion, "no one, whatever their gender, whatever their sex ..."

Bonkers! Did her interlocutor ask her what she meant? I bet not. Why are politicians allowed to spout garbled nonsense without being asked to give clear, lucid definitions?

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 22/02/2020 08:42

Also why is she sulking about people not understanding that she didn't mean babies literally don't have a sex? She's a politician, communicating well is part of what she is in theory paid for. If she's bad at it then that's on her.

NewNameEveryWeek · 22/02/2020 08:53

I just listed to it. The exact quote was:

"Every time we talk about it, another trans person gets attacked."

I am so full of rage at this nonsense. This isn't true and even if it were it's not OK to be constantly blaming women for male violence when we are just trying to protect our spaces.

I voted Tory at the last election because of this nonsense and plan to carry on doing so whilst Labour has this damaging attitude. I am a centrist and Labour have lost my vote.

Lordfrontpaw · 22/02/2020 08:53

You’ve got to admire her brass neck. If I’d said something that stupid to the nation I’d be in hiding.

Original poster
testing987654321 · 22/02/2020 08:56

what the trans issue demonstrates is that Labour’s hierarchy are prepared to collectively lose their minds, common sense, and all rational thought if a fearful topic comes up

Agreed. Obviously I disagree with them on how trans issues should be handled but collective failure to notice the emperor's lack of clothes is terrifying.

It's also why the Guardian won't get any of my money. They keep saying they do independent journalism but their prioritising of men's feelings has lost my cash.

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