As of 5pm Dawn Butler says trans women ‘should never be put in women’s jails’

[stumbledin]

Dawn Butler has said violent transitioning male prisoners ‘should never’ be allowed in women’s jails, as a Labour row over trans rights rages on.

But when pressed for her position today, Ms Butler told Metro.co.uk: ‘There are bodies and advisory bodies within the judicial system that everybody would need to go through before that would even be considered and that (trans women prisoners in a female prison) should never happen.’ Asked directly if she disagreed with backbencher Ms Nandy’s stance, she added: ‘Yes… the prisons service has a separate area anyway and they have discretionary ways of dealing with trans prisoners. ‘So the prison service already have all of those considerations.’

metro.co.uk/2020/02/18/labour-split-dawn-butler-says-trans-women-never-put-womens-jails-12260746/

(Not saying I believe this as anything other than a party strategy but thought I would post as we monitor Labour seesawing all over the place.)

"Why are you being mad?" sums the whole issue up so well.

R4 The Moral Maze tonight :

"Two of the final three Labour leadership candidates have signed pledges to defend trans rights, expel party members who express "transphobic" views and fight against Woman’s Place UK, LGB Alliance and “other trans-exclusionist hate groups”. Both those groups cited insist they are merely campaigning for the rights of women as they exist under UK Equality law, as well as those of gay, lesbian and bisexual people. This bitter quarrel could be seen as symptomatic of a wider culture war which calls into question the very notions of gender, sex, sexuality, social justice and inclusivity. For many trans activists, a failure to recognise trans women as women or trans men as men is itself hateful, because they believe it denies the most fundamental fact of their identity. Their critics, however, accuse them of denying a biological reality that sex is determined at birth. It is, they say, unreasonable to refuse even to discuss the subject. For those prepared to debate, there’s a lot to think about. What constitutes “transphobia”? What are the moral implications of gender self-identification? What rights and protections should be afforded to ‘biological’ females in women's changing rooms, refuges and prisons? What does gender self-identification mean for women’s sport? More fundamentally, where does ‘masculinity’ end and ‘femininity’ begin?

How should we respond to the increasing numbers of children and teenagers, particularly girls, being diagnosed with gender dysphoria? And what ethical considerations should apply in deciding whether and how to treat them? With Jane Fae, Graham Linehan, Torr Robinson and Kiri Tunks.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000fgsp?

Wow.

Should be interesting!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3826996-Moral-Maze-Radio-4-8pm-19-Feb-Transgender-Rights

I've just realised i knew Dawn Butler's family growing up. They ran a local bakery right near my school - and iirc her little brother was at the school with me too. Of course, i can't be sure he was actually a brother - he may have been too young to have been assigned a sex