As of 5pm Dawn Butler says trans women ‘should never be put in women’s jails’

[stumbledin]

Dawn Butler has said violent transitioning male prisoners ‘should never’ be allowed in women’s jails, as a Labour row over trans rights rages on.

But when pressed for her position today, Ms Butler told Metro.co.uk: ‘There are bodies and advisory bodies within the judicial system that everybody would need to go through before that would even be considered and that (trans women prisoners in a female prison) should never happen.’ Asked directly if she disagreed with backbencher Ms Nandy’s stance, she added: ‘Yes… the prisons service has a separate area anyway and they have discretionary ways of dealing with trans prisoners. ‘So the prison service already have all of those considerations.’

metro.co.uk/2020/02/18/labour-split-dawn-butler-says-trans-women-never-put-womens-jails-12260746/

(Not saying I believe this as anything other than a party strategy but thought I would post as we monitor Labour seesawing all over the place.)

Violent prisoners are treated differently everyone knows that.

That's right. Violent male prisoners are treated differently within a men's prison. Violent female prisoners are treated differently within a women's prison.

So, if TWAW, why are you saying that violent TW prisoners should be treated differently within a men's prison? Could it be...surely not? Could it be because they are MALE?

Dawn just keeps on digging that big old hole doesn't she.

I swing from laughing about the disaster that is Labour to being absolutely furious at how utterly inept they are.

Whose pocket is she in?

Everything boils down to moolah.

Didn’t she get flown to LA for some sort of LGBT awards extravaganza?

I've got it! Obviously, TWAW so there shouldn't be any TW in female prisons because we should be referring to them as women, not as TW.

Didn’t she get flown to LA for some sort of LGBT awards extravaganza?

Yep, to the tune of £15000

publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm/cmregmem/181001/butler_dawn.htm

So can I check Dawn Butler MP (shadow minister Women & Equalities) position as its believed to be now?

Back to babies aren't born with sex, transwomen are women, transmen are men & non-binary are valid?

Of course its ok for vulnerable female prisoners to be locked in with child rapists, providing they identify as TW & are not too violent?
Child rape can of course be recorded as being committed by a female if the male perpetrator is a transwoman because TWAW?
Women might be expelled from the Labour party for asking these sort of questions? TBC

Any news on whether Dawn Butler MP understands why transmen aren't in male prisons?

so there shouldn't be any TW in female prisons because we should be referring to them as women, not as TW.

Yes women & also 'females with a transgender experience/history'

Women betrayed for £15k. Good to know our worth to you Dawn.

Andrew Watson is that idiot who picked a fight with Helen Joyce and lost isn’t he ?

She's clarified her clarification by making everything much less clear

@jadefinch the comments on that tweet are amazing, thank you so much for sharing it.

It's sad, watching your own party do this to themselves. But the dark comedy is undeniable.

I hope Metro recorded the interview.

So does this make Dawn Butler a transphobe? Shouldn’t she be expelled? At the very least she needs to be re-educated.

My guess is she's been getting an earful all evening from the TWAW lobby.

I was reading the other day (Lachlan Stuart I think) about how she agreed to the Labour manifesto before publication and then started tweeting against it as soon as it came out.

It almost looks like she went through the trans programming to learn the approved responses to questions on women's rights vs. trans rights, but when caught on her own, instinctive response happened.

All the programmers went balastic and did a quick re-program to get her back on the approved track!

I really like this from twitter especially why are you being mad

rapists should not be imprisoned with women. especially when so many of the women will have been victims of sexual violence themselves. why are you being mad

it takes the more complex form of a particular biological reductionism falsely interpreted through Marxist materialism – although it is what Marx himself would have called a “vulgar materialism”

Do any of these people read Engels? Any of them?

"In the heroic age a Greek woman is, indeed, more respected than in the period of civilization, but to her husband she is after all nothing but the mother of his legitimate children and heirs, his chief housekeeper and the supervisor of his female slaves,whom he can and does take as concubines if he so fancies." Emphasis mine, from The Origin of the Family, Private Property, and the State. www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/download/pdf/origin_family.pdf

Engels makes it very clear that monogamy (for women, the men still get to use prostituted women) is to ensure paternity and the wife becomes valuable for her fecundity above all other things.

"Monogamy arose from the concentration of considerable wealth in the hands of a single individual man-and from the need to bequeath this wealth to the children of that man and of no other. For this purpose, the monogamy of the woman was required, not that of the man,"

Engels is talking about the hijacking of female reproductive labour by men to create sons to inherit men's wealth. This is the materialist analysis.

You're expecting people who call themselves Marxists (favoring "luxury communism" or otherwise) on the internet to have actually read Marx, never mind Engels? Bless your optimism.

in order to give people the skills to confidently challenge these ideas

Not one of these people, including this idiot MP, could "confidently challenge" an articulate feminist on this if they had to do it face to face, and they couldn't skew the terms of the debate etc. Not one of them could win in a fair fight.

Hence #nodebate

On the bright side, the metro won't have to interview her again.

I think it's very unlikely that the Metro, a reasonably pro trans organ, made these quotes up out of nothing.

Hopefully this experience might peak them a bit. Peak Dawn, anyway.

I am SO excited to discover what batshittery labour have in store for tus tomorrow.

It’s a wild old ride.

Oh no..my mp Alex Sobel is on that list, Ro despite ay email from me and I am sure others. Only as wet was that he would be looking into it....

Oh , many emails... and only reply was...though wet seem kind of appropriate too,

I'm with DULang. We could make it a drinking game!