Lisa Nandy says child rapists should be in women’s prisons if they identify as female

[RoyalCorgi]

Extraordinary.

www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=oUon9j1zJ_E&

The Prison Service's need to keep all inmates safe is, of course, very different from appropriate measures to deal with any real problems between law abiding private citzens going about their business.

Thank you for de-bunking Julia Long's fallacious attack on Lisa Nandy.

Julia Long asked Lisa Nandy about placing men in women's prisons. What has that to do with law abiding private citizens?

Astounding that Robin comes on to a thread about women at risk, and absolutely only sees it as an opportunity to protect Robin's current privileges about what toilet Robin wants to use.

It never fails to elicit a small gasp of disbelief from me when someone is so invested that they cannot see what kind of person they are announcing themselves to be.

Thank you for de-bunking Julia Long's fallacious attack on Lisa Nandy.

Dr Julia Long asked Lisa Nandy the following important questions:

Should male child rapists be housed in female or male estate prison?

Should male sex offenders who identify as women have their crimes be recorded as committed by women?

Should women in the Labour party be described as being in a 'hate group' if we ask questions like this?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUon9j1zJ_E&feature=youtu.be

This was clearly neither an attack nor based on a mistaken belief.
To make such blatent false allegations is quite remarkable.

It's really strange but at least two people on twitter have said that Transmen are not housed in male prisons and never will be.

I don't know if this is definitely the case but they seem pretty sure it is.

1. why is that? 🤔 (I know why, Nandy clearly doesn't.)

2. why, therefore, are TW put in female prisons?

TBF she was sitting on a chair while lesbian again. She has form.

Had a longer reply in mind, but everything I would have said has been said, so just..fucking hell, what are Labour playing at, really?!

Robin does not seem interested at all in understanding another point of view it seems. Just validation. And continues to not answer any of the questions about their arguments for transwomen sex offenders being placed in alongside women. Just minimisation - 1 child rapist in a community of 12-20000.

It shows a complete lack of empathy towards a sex that they believe they are, and should be identified as, with their comments.

@RobinMoiraWhite
Thanks also for this. Arguments must run forwards and backwards.

When women say they don't want men in their spaces - #nodebate

I'm sure any sex person who had raped a a child wouldn't last long in a prison full of women. Proper justice would be served, sounds like a great idea!

And yet when that does happen 'proper justice' is NOT served - more women are raped.

It shows a complete lack of empathy towards a sex that they believe they are, and should be identified as, with their comments.

There's a significant difference between 'identifying as' & 'identifying with'.

Apparent absence of empathy should always be taken seriously.

So asking an MP three reasonable questions is an attack if the answers reveal her ideas to be unpopular or problematic?

I guess that's one way to frame things.

Looking at who someone empathises with tells us a lot about how they see themselves

Thing is they arent anything like eachother. We have people who have been through the long difficult process sympathising with people who wome up one day saw the loophole and went for it.

Theres no common ground at all. Well besides entitlement.....

Women's services are not designed for your inner validation robin.

I dont use them for any form of validation. It is remarkable how folk here know my motivation better than I do.

I'll also point out the total lack of engagement with any points made, any effort to express why female people here are so angry with your posts, just the occasional goady and condescending post about some minor detail to keep stirring the pot.

And the complete ignoring of female people's stakes or interests.

And the complete lack of empathy with females.

And the complete lack of acknowledgement that the only reason for posting here at all is to continually discourage and invalidate females for caring about other females instead of focusing on the needs of males.

There's no interest in any kind of reciprocal conversation, so the reasons for posting at all on this thread become blindingly obvious.

Do you think Lisa Nandy really believes that? It’s like she’s trolling this forum.

You know all the effort that has been expended here on a single person is a microcosm of how much effort & energy is being expended by women just to justify their right to exist as a sex class

I think of all the things we could be doing instead of this but no we have to fight for our right to define ourselves & protect our spaces

Like so many things in this rabbit hole of a country, if you had me 10 years ago this is where women would be I’d have laughed at you...

She's a fucking idiot. This could cost her the leadership though RLB no better.

You've made that point already Robin, maybe you missed the response?

I dont use them for any form of validation

If you put me in a mens prison. I'd still be a woman. So why cant these prisoners be who they are in a mens prison?

Rape is the most Male crime possible. What changes when they wake up 12 hours after going to bed as a man and decide they are a woman?

There's a significant difference between 'identifying as' & 'identifying with'.

That’s not the definition of transsexual though is it, identifies ‘with’ the opposite physical sex.

Men can identify with women, without being transgender.

Do you think Lisa Nandy really believes that?

If she doesn't, why did she say it? It makes her sound insane.

I don't care what your motivation is Robin. You are not the topic of the thread.

The fact that you have chosen to use a thread about rapists in women's prison as a platform to talk about what you want to talk about says a lot about you, but that's your look out.

Any further comment about protecting women, in case you fancy digging yourself out of the reprehensible hole you've dug for yourself here?

What does that 12-20,000 figure even refer to?

There are around 3,800 women in prison in the UK, so it’s not that.

There are around 3,500 male born transitioners with GRCs so it’s not that

There are an estimated 600,000 trans people in the UK (Stonewall figures) so it’s not that.

There are around 79,000 prisoners in the male estate, so it’s not that.

1 in 50 prisoners have declared a trans identity, so that’s approx 1640 across both estates, or 1580 if the one in 50 applies to the male estate only, so it’s not that.

There are 125 official trans prisoners according to the MOJ, so it’s not that.

40% of those prisoners are held in sex offender or maximum security prisons (52), so it’s not that.

Incarcerated sex offender numbers in 2018 were 13,535 - is that it? Because there is definitely more than one transgender person convicted of serious offences against minors in that figure, off the top of my head, Carrie Cooper, Zoe Lynes, Jacinta Brooks, the anonymous 60 year old that took the NHS to the high court to try and get genital surgery funded. Karen White had previous convictions for sexual offences against a primary age child...

The TranscrimeUK website is sure to have more, should anyone fancy a gander. Of course, we know little of those who transition after being convicted, unless they hit the news due to an appeal or reoffending under the new name after release. I call this POGD (Prison Onset Gender Dysphoria).

Men who commit sexual offences against children are at risk of violence from other male prisoners, so identifying as transgender and applying for a transfer to a facility for women makes perfect sense as a survival strategy. It’s up to the prison system to ensure it isn’t ‘gamed’ in this way, but top down policies recommended by Stonewall and lapped up by naive politicians such as Lisa Nandy make their job harder than it needs to be.

5 child rapists in a male prison estate of 79,000 is a drop in the ocean. 5 child rapists in the female estate of under 4,000 is a much more significant number, and the female estate isn’t designed for their needs anyway.

Much better to keep them on vulnerable prisoner wings in the male estate. More efficient. Appropriately trained staff.