Visitors on post-natal wards - a feminist issue?

[JellySlice]

I have read so many threads posted by mums in post-natal wards where partners are allowed to stay overnight and excessive numbers of poorly-behaved visitors are allowed. The level of noise becomes disruptive, the lack of privacy is distressing and ridiculous demands are made of the midwives and auxiliaries.

Yet nobody is able to say or do anything about it. The midwives seem powerless to impose a standard of behaviour upon the visitors, or to evict those who abuse it. The mothers are reluctant to complain because they are sympathetic to the other women's need for companionship/love/help, but also why should they have to?

The reason I wonder whether this is a feminist issue is that the people suffering in this situation and struggling to take control of this situation are female (predominately female, in the case of the midwives).

Is 'Be Kind' socialisation backfiring on women again?

How can this be changed?

You can’t ban partners unless you’re prepared to replace them with more nurses who will offer the care that partners were providing.

It's such a difficult one isn't it. On principal I completely disagree with allowing partners to stay, I completely understand why it's unfair on other patients and wouldn't have wanted to stay on a ward with other women's partners there. But on the other hand I had a c section at a hospital where they didn't allow partners to stay and my DH was sent home within an hour after birth. I was left without a cot in my bay, completely out of it, couldn't reach my buzzer and it was truly awful. I found the immediate post natal period just traumatising. If DH had been there I think the whole thing would have felt more manageable but those early hours of feeling utterly abandoned have really stayed with me. Of course, it's the care that should have been better but I do selfishly wish he could have stayed with me.

The feminist issue here is not whether partners should stay - and remember that partners can be women, too - but how the part-natal ward environment needs to be managed BY women and FOR women.

It is a feminist issue, but the wrong issues are raised

1. Women need rest post birth, but must also be with their infants. Privacy is essential, yet large wards are the norm.
2. Vulnerable people should never be left in the hospital alone. Children especially should have an advocate present at all times. Mom very likely isn’t capable of that job immediately after birth. I know I couldn’t walk across the hospital to follow my infant to tests after my stomach had been cut open. Dad’s presence is for the baby and it is essential.

I don't buy the argument that wards are for women's own good. Having just given birth, bleeding and leaking all over, making new friends was quite far down on my list.

Me neither. I got moved to a separate room from the bay of 4 because DD was so noisy that one of the other women tried to discharge herself in the middle of the night. Bedside cots are a great idea but not in in a multi-occupancy ward!

I don't buy the argument that wards are for women's own good. Having just given birth, bleeding and leaking all over, making new friends was quite far down on my list.

This! It's undignified, too, having to present in such a vulnerable state in a ward with curtains open all on display because it's the ideal of the staff. Society has moved on from seeing patients as pieces of meat who have to put up with lack of privacy and dignity to make life easier for others. I'm not in hospital to learn from other patients or make friends but to get adequate treatment from trained staff and then leave.

In a massive ward with half a dozen other women, I meant to write of course.

I read the thread (deleted) about the numpty complaining at being told of for wandering the maternity ward in a nightshirt, where several midwives mentioned or quoted about male partners treating a post natal ward like a hotel.

The parallels on the thread with many issues discussed here were striking, and all came down to the issue of male socialisation. And that a principle set up for 'nice' men with good social behaviours then means you're dealing with the extremes of poor behaviour with no boundaries.

There were also the usual 'But I'M ok and MY husband is lovely (so women sharing about their fear, distress, lack of privacy, inability to breast feed because of bloke leering through curtains just shut up and deal)' posts.

Also discussion around how it has slid gradually from being males allowed onto post natal wards with extended/overnight visiting to give emotional support to the woman who has just given birth, to males wanting to define their experience, quality of experience and rights in this situation, shifting the center of focus on to them at the expense of the woman who is the patient.

There is a significant danger of eventually moving to the 'right' of a man to be at a birth and on the ward with his child whether or not the woman who gave birth to their child consents to this, and regardless of the negative impact it has on her and the birth. This arises regularly on other boards as an issue with men trying to force this right, and at the moment the woman's consent is final. I also have concerns about abused women who overnight have some respite or opportunity to seek help but won't have if their partner knows they can't be made to leave. And what happens to the women who suffer as a result of other people's partners and their varied behaviours at a very vulnerable time. People are so afraid to say this is about the woman's need and experience, that is what matters.

The problem isn't partners, it's badly behaved partners.
Clearly several posters on here don't want their partners present, but my DH was a godsend, and stuck up for me when I wanted him to and the nurses were being less than helpful.
More nurses wouldn't have helped - I wanted DH, not complete strangers.
45 years ago, my aunt made a lifelong friend with the woman in the next bed to each other, but yes, people are more insular these days.

More nurses wouldn't have helped - I wanted DH, not complete strangers

Can’t you see that’s a selfish position to take? Would you apply that to other wards in a hospital? Or just maternity?

I can completely understand the arguments against allowing partners to stay but after an extremely long labour and a CS plus being hooked up to a drip for various reasons for 3 days and being unable to move, pick up my baby to feed etc and no nurses in sight I genuinely couldn't have managed on my own. It's all very well saying other women could help but that leaves things very much to chance with who is around you on the ward (in my case someone in a similar state to me and a women going through withdrawal with social workers in and out making sure her baby was fed etc. It just wouldn't have worked, we were all as hopeless as each other!) I would have happily packed my partner off home to get some sleep if the ward hadn't been woefully understaffed and that's the crux of the issue isn't it. He was also aware that his presence may be making others feel uncomfortable and said he felt intrusive but there was no other option.

Can’t you see that’s a selfish position to take?

I suppose the two opposing viewpoints are both selfish - either tell women they can't have their partners there or tell women they have to put up with other women's partners.
There's nowhere to compromise.

It's all very well saying other women could help

Also, why should other women help? Because it's women's work?

The wants of one person do not trump the needs of other women to feel safe at a time they are at their most vulnerable. Your husband might be a 'godsend' to you, to all the other women he is a stranger, taking up space and resources that are limited.
When the hell did giving birth become all about the menz and what they want? Surely all these 'partners' wandering around, unDBS checked in a healthcare setting is a safeguarding issue? I'm probably wrong about that!
More healthcare assistants, nursing care for post-partum women who need it. Enforced visiting hours, no more of this 'entire family turning up and sitting there all day commenting on everyone else in the ward.' Maternity care is not important because it is a women's thing. If it was men giving birth there is no way the post-natal wards would be in the state they are!

shifting the center of focus on to them [men] at the expense of the woman who is the patient.

Exactly.

I suppose the two opposing viewpoints are both selfish - either tell women they can't have their partners there or tell women they have to put up with other women's partners. There's nowhere to compromise.

In matters of consent, no always has to trump yes.

The compromise would be to have two separate units - although again I'd have concerns about how much women would be allowed to make the choice for themselves, particularly the women who most need to. But that's never going to happen on the nhs.

The other downside is that those with wonderful partners are receiving better care than women who may be there alone or with a less wonderful partner.

This care should be being provided by hospital staff, equally. It shouldn't have to rely on the quality of the person a woman may be able to have with her 24/7 if their childcare commitments etc work out.

My husband, my baby, no one else's business. Swim and roundabouts as I remember the campaign. The husbands 99% of the time aren't the problem. It's the additional "guests", their food smells, noise etc. There's no way I could've done without my husband during my time in hospital with my son. Also, I nearly died. Imagine how he would feel if I had and he wasn't there. Get a hold of yourselves. A feminist issue my arse.

When the hell did giving birth become all about the menz and what they want?

It's not all about the mens!
It's all about the women who want their partners there!
The wants of women who don't want men there should trump the wants of women who want their partners there?

Where are all the these wonderful partners providing care because nursing staff can’t. It’s a total lie. They aren’t feeding and changing their newborn and they aren’t providing care to their partner. What they are actually doing is making demands from staff, using patient facilities and not caring a fuck about women’s privacy.

My husband, my baby, no one else's business.

It is when you're in a public place sharing space with other people.

I don’t consider not having other people’s patient advocate there overnight to be a want. I consider to to be a rule that has been set up across all adult hospital wards because it is shown to be in the best interests of patients as a group.

If women require patient advocates on maternity wards because maternity ward care is far worse than on other wards (which I am not convinced is the case), then either improve maternity care, or increase patient advocacy as a volunteering role.

all those idiots going on about their sainted partners need to read some of the threads about awful partners. Barging behind curtains when women are naked, moaning about patients in pain making a noise, using patient facilities and being able to listen to health professionals talking about some women’s perinieum.

The advocate can’t be affiliated with the hospital. Especially in teaching situations, you can’t trust that the least invasive alternative will always be chosen.

The role of mother has been so devalued. Instinctively after a birth (lack of complications permitting) a mother wants to hold, smell, see her baby. It's an exclusive female experience, growing and birthing a baby. And yet we're rail roaded into sharing the experience and the baby from the moment of first breath. Those first few days should be mother centred.
I can't articulate my point properly

I stayed during the day, then retired in the evening to the pub to celebrate with friends and family the day my daughter was born. I left them to get a good night's sleep. And two decades later, I still get moaned at for it. Sometimes you just can't win.