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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

14.02.20 Live updates on Harry and Kate’s cases HERE

625 replies

MrsSnippyPants · 14/02/2020 08:58

I shall be glued to social media this morning and thought it might be useful to have a place where we can post updates as they come in so people need to follow just one thread.
Please post Twitter handles of anyone providing live updates as you find them.
@WeAreFairCop are saying it is likely the judgement will NOT be read out so they hope to get a copy and summarise and tweet after 10.30am

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
Mockersisrightasusual · 14/02/2020 17:26

ED doing a Humphries in anticiapation of a similarly superannuated R4 career. This would be fine with a politcian but not with an ordinary citizen who was only trying to stand up for himself.

nauticant · 14/02/2020 17:29

Every time I hear the BBC being woke and partisan on gender identity ideology I'm less inclined to support it as an institution. But then Trump does something to subvert democracy or you have Johnson being controlled by Cummings and I think having the BBC as a world class news organisation in the present day is surely worth having.

But I'm really having my doubts.

Mayomaynot · 14/02/2020 17:29

Great news and terrible news in one day. Women being told to be kind... This is what sexism looks like. Kate Flowers

NeurotrashWarrior · 14/02/2020 17:29

Oh the irony of R4 advertising a programme querying how alike today's world is to Orwell...

twitter.com/bbcradio4/status/1228364756718903298?s=21

ThePurported · 14/02/2020 17:30

Evan Davis was pathetic, banging on about Harry's rudeness to draw attention away from the real issue, which is the insane behaviour of the police.

Michelleoftheresistance · 14/02/2020 17:31

It's blatantly obvious. R0wan didn't speculate, previous posters did but they haven't been deleted.

Demonstrating in real time, the problem at hand.

Anything can be argued as 'hate speech' and it can be and is weaponised by someone in bad faith who wishes to use this wide open door to abuse someone they don't like and want to harm. There is no accountability and no recourse against misuse.

Should any civilised group or society accept this? Because it seems to me a bullies' charter that would end in disaster in any group or organisation I've ever belonged to.

nauticant · 14/02/2020 17:32

Especially when in the case they were discussing, the judge opens his judgement with:

“Free speech includes not only the inoffensive but the irritating, the contentious, the eccentric, the heretical, the unwelcome and the provocative ... Freedom only to speak inoffensively is not worth having ... “

Imnobody4 · 14/02/2020 17:40

Very disappointed in ED. I used to like him.

Lordfrontpaw · 14/02/2020 17:49

I would have pegged him for that anyway. Well there you go.

FTFOTFVille · 14/02/2020 17:49

It was me ThePurported, I speculated, not R0

R0wantrees · 14/02/2020 17:53

Demonstrating in real time, the problem at hand.

Anything can be argued as 'hate speech' and it can be and is weaponised by someone in bad faith who wishes to use this wide open door to abuse someone they don't like and want to harm. There is no accountability and no recourse against misuse.

I havent had email explaining how my post allegedly breaks MN guidelines
I have reported my deleted post & asked for confirmation

Ive looked back & am confident my post quotes Helen Belcher (Trans Media Watch & Libdems) from the BBC article & links to the clarification by Lord Keen in House of Lords which is to say there is no 'spousal veto'

This is a very important clarification which those of us who have been listening to TinselAngel & other transwidows are well aware of. Whilst MPs including Jo Swinson, Jess Phillips, Layla Moran & members of the Lords such as Ruth Hunt & Liz Barker seem to have been misled by transactivists such as Helen Belcher.

7th February 2020 thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3815432-Ruth-Hunt-uses-maiden-speech-to-make-wildly-misleading-claims-about-the-spousal-veto

SoldiersinPetticoats · 14/02/2020 17:55

Just listened to ED. Incredible! He had such an agenda. Really disappointed but we've seen many gay men stand on the side of the gender identity extremists so I guess we shouldn't be suprised.

Cascade220 · 14/02/2020 17:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Mockersisrightasusual · 14/02/2020 18:04

It's the lead story on the R4 Six O'Clock News, but fourth item on the TV News.

Mockersisrightasusual · 14/02/2020 18:05

...Looks like R4 has escaped from the compound, but still needs deprogramming.

thenightsky · 14/02/2020 18:05

Prime slot on our local Calender news (Lincolnshire) now.

R0wantrees · 14/02/2020 18:38

Radio 4 are also relying on Helen Belcher as spokeperson for 'concerned' transgender people & groups.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3397760-Open-Letter-about-Trans-Media-Portrayal-signed-by-lots

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3402078-R4-World-at-One-Janice-Turner-and-Helen-Belcher

Helen Belcher (Trans Media Watch) unfounded accusations against Janice Turner:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3569148-Vindication-for-Janice-Turner-IPSO-complaint-result

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3393577-Janice-Turner-accused-of-causing-trans-suicides

Report from September 2018 Transactivist conference 'We're Still Here' organised by Jane Fae.
OP TheHarpySings who attended, wrote:

(extract)
6) GETTING THE GRA WE WANT

This was a workshop with 3 experts sitting with groups and talking through activism. They were:

Helen Belcher (Lib Dems, Trans Media Watch)
James Morton (Scottish Transgender Alliance)
Alex Moore (GenderJam). Moore is from N Ireland.

James Morton gave some insight into tactics the TRAs will probably start using in England and Wales as they were successful in Scotland.

He said the TRAs need to build allies in mainstream women and children’s organisations so it looks like they care about them.

He also said what worked in Scotland's was a “constructive, friendly, innocent” tone when debating or in dialogue with the GC side. To be mindful about who is watching- essentially like what we do with the lurkers on the FWR board. To make the TRAs look like the reasonable side.

James also said that in dialect with elected officials, to clarify that the trans side aren’t silencing anyone but want to clarify the misconceptions being bandied around by GC feminists.

The Scottish GRA changes will probably be put forward in the 2019-2020 parliamentary year.

Belcher has been meeting with MPs and members of the House of Lords. Most of them don’t really understand the GRA and don’t have much time to think about it thanks to the Brexit FUBAR. “Education” of law makers is needed and that’s what Belcher is doing.

Apparently the TRAs lack the infrastructure they had in the 1990s and early 2000s so they need to think carefully and coordinate.

Belcher said to re-iterate to MPs that the EA2010 is not being affected and no one is losing any rights (wtf).

Apparently in terms of political support, the Tories are split about 50/50, Labour, Lib Dem's and SNP are all onside. The Greens were NOT mentioned.

The big fear on the TRA side is that this Government won’t survive long enough to get this through- again because Brexit.

According to Alex Moore, Arlene Foster of the DUP went to a Pink News event and didn’t seem to know much about this. In NI no one really cares about the trans issues because everyone is focused on same sex marriage and abortion.

Alex then moaned about the Together for Yes campaign’s transmisogyny and that the campaign completely erased the experiences of trans and NB people who need abortions. Alex would like a legal change of gender to be free of charge and as easy as changing your name.

Helen Belcher was annoyed at GC feminists using “emotive arguments” regards rape.

HB said that the pile ons pro self-ID MPs get from the GC side if they say something supportive of the trans side are not helping the GC cause. Maria Miller told Belcher that MPs got loads of abuse in the run up to marriage equality and that abusive messages, tweets from GC feminists will only harden MPs against the GC side.

HB also said something snide about “mouthy” female Labour MPs who speak before thinking on Twitter- especially on a Friday or Saturday night after they’ve had a few drinks.

Apparently the TRAs have civil service support and that the Stonewall report and Gov survey are strong bits of evidence they have which is helping them win arguments.

They are saying there is no risk to reforming the GRA and are asking MPs “what is the risk?”

In the group I was in they also talked about how changing your gender multiple times should be allowed and shouldn’t be seen as “bad intentions”.

James Morton talked about how they can get rid of “gender” markers on things like IT systems and places where it isn’t relevant- apparently GDPR might be able to help them here.

JM’s campaigning tips were to gain trust in the local community- and to approach moderate feminists, “correct misconceptions and forgive any ignorance they may have displayed”. They want to gain trust and make themselves likeable.

Apparently small acts like helping to campaign about period poverty or retweeting the local branch of Women’s Aid will make a difference and result in some reciprocation. They want to make it look like they care about Women's issues so they don’t appear threatening" (continues)
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3398737-We-re-Still-Here-Conference-8th-September-A-report-from-the-inside

NeurotrashWarrior · 14/02/2020 18:59

I remember that was the most chilling thread I've read in this.

Michelleoftheresistance · 14/02/2020 19:09

Well looking at that from over a year on:

Giving the appearance of caring about women's issues (or women) - fail.
Looking the reasonable side - fail. As surmised by Harry's judge today.

Women tweeting and contacting MPs about women's rights doesn't help their cause - well that's interesting because that would say there's sheer misogyny at work that women standing up for women's rights are intrinsically unpleasant and offputting. And frankly how else would they like women to do it? But I don't actually believe this, because if it was true, Twitter et al wouldn't be hiding and deleting tweets and getting posts deleted here, they'd be egging us on to talk as much as possible if they believed it had a negative effect.

I shall however be reminding my MP again that any 'facts' or statements made by extremist political lobbies should be thoroughly checked for veracity as there's often anti-woman deceptions in there such as 'there are no changes to the EQA' and 'there's no risk to women'. Which is obvious, easily evidenced bullshit.

refusetobeasheep · 14/02/2020 19:10

Anyone else think Harry's stance in all the photos outside court is straight out of the Blackadder Don't Mention Macbeth episode? [Legs astride, declaim loudly ...)

Michelleoftheresistance · 14/02/2020 19:12

And point out again that a fair, honest and harmless agenda would happen openly, in plain sight and stand on its own merits, with respect for others. Particularly those they identify as.

Cascade220 · 14/02/2020 19:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AnyOldSpartabix · 14/02/2020 19:25

I seem to remember reading that the judge in the Fair Cop case expressed astonishment that the police could record a hate incident where there was no evidence of hate, or indeed an incident... or something along those lines.

So it would make sense if he wanted it to be elevated to a higher court if he feels the situation is clearly untenable, but that he doesn’t have the clout to dismantle it.

I very much hope that’s where this is headed.

Dreamprincess · 14/02/2020 19:28

refusetobeasheep Absolutely. But as Harry understandably had a slight meltdown a couple of months ago, I was delighted to see him standing outside the Court in such a defiant posture.

refusetobeasheep · 14/02/2020 19:30

Dream princess as far as I'm concerned he can stand however he likes tonight, he's an inspiration, it was just classic Blackadder though!