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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Glinner in Mail on Sunday today

329 replies

Lamahaha · 09/02/2020 05:36

Fabulous article:

Speaking out against transgender extremists has made me the most hated man on the internet, writes Father Ted creator GRAHAM LINEHAN

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7982837/How-hated-man-internet-writes-Graham-Linehan.html

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
R0wantrees · 09/02/2020 21:45

SpartacusLangClegicus
Yes, I was struck by the same thing which happened at the beginning of the week Monday with Dr Hayton's article in comparison to Sarah Philimore's (linked upthread)

ThisIsBigMoon · 09/02/2020 21:46

❤️

xxyzz · 09/02/2020 21:47

I wasn't talking about any of the people you named, Spartacus. I've been here 17 years. I was referring to those who have just popped up today and added hugely to the total number of posts on the Glinner threads.

xxyzz · 09/02/2020 21:49

Less on this thread, more on the other Glinner thread.

midgebabe · 09/02/2020 21:53

I would say , Fox, that my feminism would like all people treated equally so there is no need to feel guilty for talking about an article written ( incidentally ) by a man which is supporting women .its practising what you might preach ?

Now iyou feel that he gets more support than a woman would in a similar position ( hard because there are fewer women who have been able to get there ) then that would be interesting , but I think JK Rowling got a longer thread of support?

Cascade220 · 09/02/2020 21:54

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MenopauseIsMySuperPower · 09/02/2020 21:55

Just dropped in to say well done to Glinner for getting a straightforward easy to read article in 2 major Sunday papers. Because of who he is it will reach a lot more people who are largely unaware what's going on.

Is it fair they take more notice of a famous man? No. Is that his fault? Also no.

xxyzz · 09/02/2020 21:56

Spartacus, I was replying to your previous post.

Cascade220 · 09/02/2020 21:57

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NotBadConsidering · 09/02/2020 22:06

My understanding is that he believes that 'genuine transexuals' should be treated as the sex they 'present as' and that NuSex pronouns should be used to be kind

So if he thinks that, but thinks woman should be reserved for women, does he straddle both camps?

Well I also don’t agree Witt that, if that’s what he believes. Still not sure what Venice’s original point was meant to be. Glinner has previously expressed some form of capitulation in some areas ergo he’s following a pattern of a well defined narrative? It’s a bit tiresome trying to figure it all out TBH.

Bottom line is I agree with the essence of the article and how well it expresses arguments to a wide audience. Where that fits into the wider Glinner Hero vs Villain debate I’m not sure.

7Days · 09/02/2020 22:10

I still think we are throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
What's the alternative- no straightforward concise articles in massive Sunday papers?

It's the message that's important. Not who the messenger is, or isn't.

R0wantrees · 09/02/2020 22:11

Well, I disagree with him on that. I don’t think that was in the article though, was it?

from the article:
(extract)
"The four women attacked in prison by a male sex offender in 2018 (who everyone had to call ‘Karen’ or they were committing a hate crime) are four women too many.

Women in prison often have a history of abuse at the hands of men. Whatever they’ve done, they are entitled to safety from the type of men who helped put them there.

Rational people – and that includes rational trans people – are dismayed by those who have now taken over trans activism.

Body dysphoria is no longer seen as central or even necessary for those who decide to adopt a so-called trans identity."

The case which set the significant & dangerous precident enabling dangerous males such as Karen White to be placed in female prison estate was Karen Jones'. Jones was diagnosed with body dysphoria by Dr James Barrett. Jones was convicted of manslaughter & then attempted rape of a female shop assistant in Manchester. The attack took place in 2002, five days after Lawson was released early on licence after being jailed for manslaughter.

STILLTish excellent article:

'Biological Males in the Female Prison Estate.'
(extract)
"It came as a shock to find that pre-operative “transgender” males were being housed in the female prison estate. Given the jaw dropping idiocy of the policy I assumed, wrongly, this was a recent phenomenon, a temporary loss of State Sanity. I was wrong. While high profile cases, which resulted in sexual assaults on female inmates, (see Karen White and Paris Green ), have only just penetrated the public consciousness, it is not a recent aberration. It is policy. This has been going on since at least 2009! Because of legal cases like this one 👇
move to women’s prison.

The prisoner had been granted a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC) in 2006. Thus, only two years after the Gender Recognition Act (GRA)had been passed, a bodily intact, biological male, who would go on to commit attempted rape, was recognised as a “woman” for all purposes. Because of this legislation the prisoner was allowed to mount a legal challenge to his incarceration, in the male estate." (continues)

At least one of the expert witnesses spelt out clearly the claimant’s own narcissism fuelled rage. Controlling, Aggressive, violent and sadistic. Does that sound like a risk to which women ought to be alerted. Is this compatible with “Living as a woman”?

Up next is Gender Identity Specialist, Dr James Barrett. Here we have a belated recognition that the women may have opinions about co-habiting with a male-bodied, attempted rapist. Predictably this is what he has to say about those uppity Prison women. They would be the “sort of women who enjoy conflict“. Women asserting boundaries is always badged aggression by those who wish to deny them." (Continues)

gendercriticalwoman.wordpress.com/2019/08/11/how-long-has-this-been-going-on/

see also
transcrimeuk.com/2017/10/30/karen-lawson/

xxyzz · 09/02/2020 22:12

I'm not sure we post on these threads as a 'duty', Spartacus. You can't label people as insufficiently feminist because they happen to be interested in posting on a thread about an article by a man.

By that measure, why are you posting on this thread at all?

Why are your comments not boosting the traffic to the thread about Helen Joyce? Confused

Cascade220 · 09/02/2020 22:16

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

xxyzz · 09/02/2020 22:23

But you can see your post does come across as a bit Do as I say, not as I do, Spartacus?

Personally, I have no problem with you or any other woman commenting on what a man has written if they so wish.

After all, men have written some interesting things too! Grin

Cascade220 · 09/02/2020 22:25

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xxyzz · 09/02/2020 22:36

OK.

I don't actually have any interest in arguing with you as I think we're on the same side.

I will reserve my right however to comment (as you do) on threads about women and threads about men, because actually they're all threads about FWR. Which is what we're here to discuss. And I will continue to welcome and be grateful for anyone, male or female, who stands up for women's rights. It's not like women can afford to ignore support because we have so much of it.

R0wantrees · 09/02/2020 22:40

It's the message that's important. Not who the messenger is, or isn't.

What's the message though?
Some people's message includes support for some male TS (whether AGP or HSTS to use Blanchard's descriptors) access to some female spaces subject to them having had 'meaningful transition'

Cascade220 · 09/02/2020 22:46

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

xxyzz · 09/02/2020 22:46

True, Rowan, views on this board are probably mixed on that, as on other issues.

That everyone's views are not identical doesn't mean that going all People's Front of Judea is very helpful.

Purity spirals etc.

xxyzz · 09/02/2020 22:47

Spartacus, I may have missed it, but don't think Glinner referenced that in either of today's articles?

Goosefoot · 09/02/2020 22:48

Yes, I was struck by the same thing which happened at the beginning of the week Monday with Dr Hayton's article in comparison to Sarah Philimore's (linked upthread)

Some articles just don't have as much in them to discuss, or aren't likely to have the same impact. None of these ones really says anything new to anyone here - they are likely to get a lot of views in the general public, but TBH people complaining that they are written by a man probably are what is keeping them at the top of the discussion.

The Hayton article had some pretty unique material for something the public would read, information that's been suppressed. And it led to some more general discussion of AGP. Again though, a lot of the discussion toward the end was from people complaining about the author being discussed here. The Sarah Philimore article was fine, but having read it, I didn't have much to say about it.

xxyzz · 09/02/2020 22:49

I probably agree with you, fwiw, but equally I'm not going to cast someone out of the tent if they don't, or it's going to be a bloody empty tent.

And I'd rather be in a nice busy but less pure tent with active conversations going on than be casting out sinners left and right, personally.

xxyzz · 09/02/2020 22:50

Sorry, slow typist. Grin

That was a reply to Spartacus, again.

Cascade220 · 09/02/2020 22:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.