Glinner in Mail on Sunday today

[Lamahaha]

Fabulous article:

Speaking out against transgender extremists has made me the most hated man on the internet, writes Father Ted creator GRAHAM LINEHAN

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7982837/How-hated-man-internet-writes-Graham-Linehan.html

Fantastic, informed comments on the Times article. I'm sure some of the commenters are MNers. Jo March? She always has good things to say on Times GC articles.

Can I add that this subject really needs to become mainstream, and well known people who break cover and say we need a debate on this are essential to that happening. Glinner is part of the mainstreaming of this subject, and hopefully more well known people will do likewise.

While Julie Bindel et al have fought so hard (and have my eternal love and admiration for their campaigning) they simply aren't mainstream or well known enough to break through to Mr and Mrs Middle UK. We can't just speak to ourselves on this subject otherwise we will get nowhere.

Glinner is well known enough to get two articles in the Sunday papers, and that he is willing to put his reputation and income on the line is to be applauded.

Venice like I said I don't do Twitter, but I read those tweets as jokes!?
Especially the last one!

Oh do stop your nonsense about dick pandering! It’s very insulting to the many women who appreciate or like the article because of the information that the public are gaining from reading it. It’s got fuck all to do with dick pandering and I would feel the same if a woman wrote it. How incredibly patronising to think we only like it because a man wrote it. I don’t think it’s those of us who appreciate the article that are suffering from internal misogyny, to be honest.

Well done for giving the TRAs fodder for their twitter threads. They must think it’s hilarious that women are fighting over a man writing an article that supports free speech.

I urge folk to read the thread I linked to in my earlier post, it's the same names with the same beef being brought here yet again.

I don't know the ins and outs of it, I'm willing to bet hardly anyone here does and I don't know why we're expected to give
it headspace tbh.

Fwiw I don't think Glinner did himself any favours wrt to his stance on the so called Nazi pug debacle.

Jo March? She always has good things to say on Times GC articles.
Well said. I always look out for her comments on the articles in The Times.

TOtallyFuckedUpFamily I agree with every word. We can all agree on this topic and agree to disagree on many others imo. I appreciate Glinner sticking his head over the parapet - many times, not just once.

Everyone should be talking about the danger this movement poses to our children, absolutely everyone!

None of our heroes are perfect.

MLK Jr was a philandering tomcat. Gandhi hired a train so he could travel third class. And Nelson Mandela said meeting the Spice Girls was the greatest moment of his life.

A bloke who once got very angry at a market and tipped over some stalls said, Let them without sin cast the first stone.

Yeah if we expect perfection from people before they can do anything right then we're shooting ourselves in the foot. The vast majority of us, male and female, will have watched porn at some point. That doesn't mean our souls are damned for all eternity and there's no way we can work to create female liberation. It just means we have another lesson to learn on the way. Personally, i'm female, GC and have watched it but my personal policy was only women and men who were actively enjoying themselves. However i'm at the point now that i realise that even this stuff could well involve coercion and so i don't watch it any more. I've lived and learned - who's to say Glinner can't do the same?

The vast majority of us, male and female, will have watched porn at some point.

I doubt that the vast majority of women have watched porn. I certainly haven't and most of my female friends haven't. We simple have no interest. But then, we are older... maybe you are speaking for the younger generation.
Also, my husband, who died in 2017, never watched it, never had.

Glinner's comedy is largely about men and the stupid things men do.

I've been accused of being a traitor by women because I attempt to change things from within. There was actually a session at the Women's Liberation 2020 conference on how to do this...so is it liberatory or is it pandering. It's influencing for the change you want.

Agree with all the people here saying thanks to everyone doing their best on this, it affects everyone, all parents. We all live and learn and I want all men to realise sooner or later in their lifetime that their porn habits are part of an abusive cashflow in the same way all degrading uses of humans are.

Well i'm 38 and most women i know my age have watched it, so not that young. But as most men our age do, it would be very unwise to be completely ignorant about it if we are in relationships with them. Have you really never even seen a dirty magazine @Lamahaha?!

Have you really never even seen a dirty magazine?

Once, when my son was about 14, we stayed with a friend and she found a dirty mag in his bed, women with open legs, and gave it to me.
That's the extent of my "dirty" knowledge!

I really am not interested.
OTOH I have done research on Mumbai's notorious red light district Kamathipura, walked through its streets, been into its brothels, talked to prostitutes. So I might be a prude by some people's standards but I take my prudishness seriously!

When I was much younger I and my friends used to giggle at Playboy centrefolds and wonder how women could do that. But that was in the 60's and 70's.

• I’m really sorry to hear of women having bad experiences with Glinner- I truly am, and I believe you, and it’s an unacceptable way for him to behave.

But most of us are not deeply involved to the extent that we understand the histories of who has tangled with whom, who’s blocked someone, who has a history on a different topic that people may not have heard of (I have no idea who or what duckula might be, for example).

This is absolutely a feminist issue, but it’s not just a feminist issue. I wouldn’t want to silence anyone from this debate, not at all, but I find it a bit wearing to be told that I can’t comment on an article because the person who wrote it is an insufferable tosser. What of it? A man who has been an insufferable tosser on a number of topics wrote a good article, laying out the basics, and got it placed in a national newspaper. I want to be able to read it and comment on it without fretting myself inside out that I’m betraying feminism*

Great post Sophocles. One for me to think on. Thank you.

Am really fucking up bold today

@RuffleCrow, by the way I'm 68 and to me you are a spring chicken!
But now I'm really curious. If so many woman (the vast majority?!) do or have watched porn, why? Are you titillated by it, or is it really because, as you say, your male DPs watch it so you need to stay informed? And if it's so common among women -- why are people jumping on Glinner for doing what almost everyone, apparently, does?

Lamahaha I think there are many and varied reasons why women have and do watch porn. However, to admit it can be rather like the gender stereotype debate. Tin hat on - feminists who say they haven't, won't, or don't watch porn say this as they see it as a male occupation. I'll get my coat …...

tbh i found most of it a bit less sexy than watching paint dry.

Sophocles not to take away from the absolute seriousness of the issue and this thread, and a fantastic post, but I now have the Count Duckula theme going round in my head!

Lamahaha that would make a very interesting thread.

Indeed and I didn't want to derail this one.

tbh i found most of it a bit less sexy than watching paint dry.

even graphic sex scenes in movies or books make me yawn. If it's a book, I just turn the pages till the story continues. I'm not intereste din sexy at all.

I engage in a male dominated and expensive sport (tons of sexism) and was told by the wealthy men that can afford it that most of the inflows of cash (which funds their hobby) in the early days of expansion of telecoms was funded buy the sheer amount of money men spent on sex phone lines. This is obviously a precursor to the visual abuse we now have deluging our kids. Money flows to the things men want, if anyone does't understand that then they are missing the point. Shouting at each other is a bit pointless. Profiteering from degradation and pain is the problem and the human rights challenge.

Thank you, thatsweary. I do get where you’re coming from.

I knew I was getting something wrong when I posted about not knowing what the thing about Duckula was, titana

and Sweary - I am absolutely interested in what happened to ManFriday (I thought it was great then saw they/you decided to stop and didn't really find out why). If there's a blog or something you want to link to I'll happily read it (or dm me).
Basically I only know one place to read the incessant ins and outs and receipts of internet beefs and it's a place to grow green fruit so I try not to stop by there too often.

from the OP article, "They are being robbed of the language to describe their reality by unintelligible academic ‘gender experts’, by teenagers encouraging each other online, by parents who are profoundly mistaken, and by well-meaning people who, confused by the ever-changing terminology, still believe they are defending what used to be called transsexuals.

All these forces working together are, whether they know it or not, providing a smokescreen for fetishists, conmen and misogynists to pursue their own agenda."

Its a shame that Glinner seems not yet to have seen either the history or recognised the full entent of the "smokescreen for fetishists, conmen and misogynists to pursue their own agenda"

As AngryAttackKittens wrote over a year ago,
"I'm going to point every "but the nice, harmless old school transsexuals whose movement has been unfairly appropriated by the nasty transgender people" person to this thread from now on.

All the same elements we're seeing now were there in that old BBC roundtable from the 70s with the 4 transwomen, the politician, and the doctor. None of this is new."

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3463920-Lets-go-back-to-2007