Stewart Lee

[FalloverBoy]

He’s on tour and I’ve just seen a Twitter post by someone saying he had a dig at Ricky Gervais’ Transphobia. That he hates Ricky Gervais is no surprise (I’m more of a Stewart Lee gal myself) but has anyone seen him live on this tour? I want to stick my fingers in my ears if he is because I bloody love his comedy.

I completely agree, Soph. I hate the lazy ‘chattering mummies’ stereotype. It’s just saying that the conversations of women are worthless and not as valid or important and those of men.

People who have never read anything on here seem to think it’s all just what pram to buy and how much our husbands annoy us.

as usual you articulate my thoughts brilliantly Soph. a person automatically having no respect for conversations that take place on MN really tells you a lot about them

Stewart is not a fan of the site and there was much mirth from the intellectually elite and politically astute

Does Lee realise he's representing the views of the establishment? you ain't no rebel any more Stew, sorry. you're just fronting up for the man (literally)

Ellie Taylor last night on live at the Apollo used Mumsnet as the butt of her main joke too.
Just seems awkward and lazy

they find groups of women silly and frivolous
they think that becoming a mum makes your brain fall out
they think mums aren’t to be taken seriously as a group
Or they secretly know that groups of women together are powerful, they’re actually a bit scared and they are trying to put women in their place.

People who have never read anything on here seem to think it’s all just what pram to buy and how much our husbands annoy us.

In a way that’s good though. Because if they knew what really goes on here they’d try to shut it down rather than just take the piss.

doubly sad when a woman does it. way to demonstrate that internalised misogyny

also (here's a thought), not funny - if you're identifying as a comedian, why not attempt to make people laugh?

The contempt for Mumsnet is one of the most glaring examples of cultural misogyny I've ever seen. Silly chattering empty headed women wittering about prosecco and prams. It's men and young women slagging it off mostly and yeah, the latter is the most depressing. They'll learn of course. But I wish they could skip this bit.

No that’s Richard Herring, who has said some pretty ignorant and misogynistic things too.

What has he said? I've always liked him and he's an intelligent person. I used to like Stewart Lee but went off him a few years ago after a pretty boring show.

Is this maybe not why he called his show Snowflake/Tornado?

I listen to Richard Herring’s RHLSTP podcast and I’ve not noticed much in the way of misogyny.

All the people I know who watch Stewart Lee are faux lefties with kids who accidentally ended up in private school. They didn't mean to send them there, just somehow tripped & fell & ended up completing a direct debit on the way down.

It's difficult for lots of men to come to terms with the idea of 'women's spaces' that exclude men.

That's why they support male transpeople's rights. They have the common goal of abolishing women only spaces.

Am going to attempt a brief defence of Stewart Lee here.

1. A PP mentioned that he'd attended a posh school. He did, but he won a scholarship there. I don't think his (adoptive) parents were well-off.

1. A PP mentioned that when she saw him he insulted the audience. I've seen him perform live lots of times, and watched his tv show, and he always insults the audience. It's part of the running joke that he is a very clever comedian whose act is too sophisticated for lots of people. In my experience, audiences love it .

1. As other people have mentioned, there are always layers of irony in a Stewart Lee routine and a lot of what he does is take the piss out of himself and his own pretensions to being more sophisticated than other comedians. So there are a lot of jokes about how bitter he is supposedly that less funny comedians are more commercially successful than he is.

1. I have never known him make a rape joke, and I'm pretty sure there weren't any when I saw him in September doing a trial run of his new material. So I'd have to reserve judgement until I'd heard the joke. I find that surprising, tbh.

1. Finally, I've always found him incredibly funny. Humour is personal and all that, so I'm not going to try and persuade other people they should find him funny if they just don't. I am disappointed that he attacked Gervais over the trans stuff (particularly given Gervais's most recent jokes have been aimed at sexual predator and pervert Jessica Yaniv - not a good look when you find yourself on the same side someone who abuses women, frankly) but there you go. Comedians en masse seem to have swallowed the Kool Aid. I saw Bridget Christie a few years ago and she also had a go at gender-critical feminists. I assume eventually the harsh reality of what they're supporting will dawn on them. It just takes some people longer than others.

Aw, thanks bernard that’s kind.

You’re right, flamingo, mostly the lazy sterotyping comes from people who’ve clearly not spent any time here.

It is good in a way, RU, I’ve always found that being underestimated is incredibly helpful in life.

Soph is in point. There has always been a weird tension in how men represent women talking amongst themselves - unimportant inconsequential chattering of those silly little women v anxiety inducing talk that could lead to who knows where and needs to be shut down. Going back centuries. Mumsnet gets described in both ways. Since I've been on here more I've noticed it more because I take it more personally.
Says alot about Lee if he joined in with the former.

It’s neatly summed up in some of the research showing who actually does most of the talking in meetings, at social events etc (men), versus the cultural stereotype of women yacking on relentlessly.

If women take up about a third of the airtime, we’re perceived to be dominating the conversation.

I make a point of referring only to men as gossips and sweetie wives because all of the worst, most curtain twitching gossips that I personally know are male.

Anyway, I’ve wandered off the point a bit here.

Pro-Women talk scares the hell out of some people. There is an instant desire to shut it down, to ridicule, to oppress because the ones that oppose us deep down know that we are right but they have gone too far down the virtue signalling rabbit hole to start backing out. It's not about kindness to people (If it were men like Stewart would be kinder to women and understand our concerns.) it's about what is popular on social media.

Also Stewart earns the bulk of his living as a comedian, his target audience are the woke folk. If he suddenly said actually I understand women's concerns and they have a point (because of said audience) he would be 'cancelled' overnight. He's a name but not a huge one. It would be the end of his career as he's always marketed himself to the edgy crowd.

Look at Gervais. He started down the Pro-women route then backed right off.

Soph you articulate my thoughts brilliantly too.

I think that's why I felt so disappointed last night.
Women, as a collective (Mumsnet), were the butt of the joke. The young male students by me found this particularly hilarious.

Women are fair game. Easy to attack as a group. Cheap laughs. But he couldn't possibly be bigoted because he's progressive and he even makes jokes about 'bigots', right?

As part of his clear lack of respect for women,
Lee referenced Mumsnet frequently, alongside his sneering at The Telegraph, Daily Mail, Brexiteers and Tories. This air of moral superiority, this wokeness, bugs me, because that in itself is a narrow minded world view.

Does he really think those women on here that did subscribe to The Guardian and Labour (just using examples he would 'approve' of) that protested section 28 and marched against fascism, suddenly all woke up one day upon hearing about the Gender Recognition Act and decided to do a complete U turn?

The irony is that his beloved paper of choice could not even print the word 'woman' in an editorial last year, while the Daily Mail ran an excellent piece yesterday about Harry Miller and The Sun featured an equally robust piece on the 4,000 per cent rise in girls being referred to 'gender' clinics.

The Guardian believes that humans can change sex, that men's feelings trump women's rights, safety and dignity, and that experimenting on confused children is to be applauded.

While Labour supports self ID and encourages males (including Stewart's pal Eddie Izzard) to steal women's places on female shortlists.

doubly sad when a woman does it. way to demonstrate that internalised misogyny

Agree.

You articulated my thoughts too, Sophocles.

I'm disappointed to learn that Stewart is just a bog standard misogynist.

On the other hand, the sexist stereotyping of MN is what has allowed women to organise here. We fly under the radar to some extent because when sexists hear 'mum' they immediately think 'wittering imbecile'.

Does he really think those women on here that did subscribe to The Guardian and Labour (just using examples he would 'approve' of) that protested section 28 and marched against fascism, suddenly all woke up one day upon hearing about the Gender Recognition Act and decided to do a complete U turn?

Apparently, yes. Although I think a lot of them don't bother thinking at all. I was at yesterday's conference and it was obvious that a large proportion of the women attending (not to mention the organisers, WPUK) were socialist feminists. A lot of women there have a history of trade unionism, collective action, campaigning against Section 28, going on CND marches, etc etc etc. It doesn't fit the narrative of gc feminists being a bunch of women funded by the American evangelical right so they just ignore the evidence and go with what makes them feel comfortable.

The stereotypes of Mumsnet are: Its full of empty headed women concerned about baby poos and prams. (Which I vastly prefer to the alternative.)
OR Mumsnet is extremely right wing. This later is unfortunately the one my own daughters have swallowed, and Mr Lee it seems.

And I've still waiting on my cheques from the American right and others who are funding all the causes I have supported and campaigned for. Has anyone got their yet?

Absolutely Royal

And there's the women he berates and genralises while joking about his nan and pearl clutchers not wanting paedophiles urinating in the street (can't reacall the exact line, but it was related to the 'hysteria' of women in little Britain).

His arrogant assumption that Nora (I used Deidre earlier as an example, but I think it was Nora reading Alan Bennet that he used in his sketch) in her semi watching Coronation Street doesn't deserve a vote as she won't use it wisely.

I bet Nora's encountered more patriarchal based inequality than he can shake his copy of Kafka at.

My hubby and I are going to see him later on in the year. Hubby thinks his funny, I thought he was okay. I suspect that this time I'll be sitting there muttering 'twat twat twat' under my breath.

I was a huge Stewart Lee fan and have seen him live often. I know he’s marmite. I also like Bridget Christie and have seen her live often. (They are married, Which I think is relevant). The last time I saw her, maybe 3/4 years ago, she pronounced twaw, no debate and how one of her closest friends was TW. So I think they’re both of the libfem persuasion, very much about individual female agency and not so much about structural oppression. Stewart is a strong atheist and I don’t understand how he can’t see gender id is the notion of the soul repackaged. But then, rational or critical thought goes out the window when the magic trans word is uttered.

Stewart is a strong atheist and I don’t understand how he can’t see gender id is the notion of the soul repackaged. But then, rational or critical thought goes out the window when the magic trans word is uttered.

That's an excellent point.

When metaphorical witch-burning has come back into fashion, some people find giving tribute to pseudo-religions quite easy to do.

No a problem in itself, but if you're going to do this you have to acknowledge that you're upholding the patriarchy for an easy life.