Teen with Aspergers convicted of transgender hate crime, he asked is that a boy or a girl.

[HairyPotter]

www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/uk-news/duty-transgender-police-officer-left-17652064

While I completely understand it must be awful to be misgendered, it can’t come as a complete surprise that some transpeople don’t ‘pass’. If you can’t cope with people asking a perfectly reasonable (in their eyes) question, then maybe a job as a PCSO isn’t for you. I’m certain that the vast majority of officers have been called far worse with feeling the need to prosecute them. Maybe a different job or a thicker skin is required.

What about the disability rights act here? Also people with verbal Tourette’s are also at risk of being in trouble with the law for their inability to not verbalise their thoughts. 😳

R0wantrees

is this a potential hate crime if the HCP feels embarassed/upset?
No, because there wouldn't have been an intention to cause distress
Its subjective though... isnt it possible that an individual in a health or care setting might 'feel' that there was intention to cause distress?

Isn’t the problem with the wording of the law now that the perception by the “victim” of intent trumps everything else?

Looking at the article, the pcso does pass as a man. Unless they’ve changed their appearance, then I would be suspicious that the shouter knew their past, and that it was a targeted shout rather than a questioning one.

PCSO Freel has been open about being transgender. Its likely that many people in Mold have heard Freel speak about this as part of Hate Crime campaigns:

BBC Wales 'Transgender officer Connor Freel shares experiences to help others'
17 October 2018
(extract)
"Now a police community support officer (PCSO) based in Mold, Flintshire, he is backing North Wales Police's campaign during Hate Crimes Awareness Week.

"It's great if my experience can help others," he said. "That drives me on."

Conor was born female but, from an early age, he said he felt he had been born in the "wrong body".

"I told my parents when I was a small child that I was a boy," he said.

"When I was around 15 I changed my name to Connor and felt free.

"I was no longer acting and not trying to fit into some sort of box I didn't belong in." (continues)

concludes
"Everyone has been great and I don't have any issues with the public. I have now got a male body shape and no-one suspects I was born female."

Connor's story is part of a campaign by the police to raise awareness of a 27% increase in hate crime across north Wales in the last 12 months.

The number of cases rose from 358 to 455, with incidents involving race and religion featuring prominently.

North Wales Police and Crime Commissioner Arfon Jones urged people to "speak out and not to suffer in silence".

Help charity Victim Support said such abuse was "ruining lives", leading to mental health problems and social isolation."

www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-45890976

ROwan
If a vulnerable female patient asks/demands of the apparently male HCP intending to carry out intimate care or examination unchaperoned 'are you a man or a woman?' is this a potential hate crime if the HCP feels embarassed/upset?

You reminded me of this:

www.brightonandhovenews.org/2019/12/09/hospital-apologises-to-rape-victim-for-branding-her-request-for-same-sex-breast-screening-medic-as-transphobic/

Requesting a female HCP may not yet be a hate crime but its enough to have you labeled transphopic and used as an example of transphobia in a hospitals trans policy.

The wording of this suggests that there is literally no defence against an accusation of hate speech?

Isn’t the problem with the wording of the law now that the perception by the “victim” of intent trumps everything else?

Not just the 'perception',of the target/recipient but it seems from the CPS Hate Crime school guidance that it could also be the 'perception' of someone else present.

‘Another officer told Miller that he had not committed a crime but his tweeting was being recorded as a hate incident under the College of Policing’s guidelines on hate crime, the high court in London heard.
‘The guidance defines a hate incident as “any non-crime incident which is perceived, by the victim or any other person, to be motivated by a hostility or prejudice against a person who is transgender or perceived to be transgender”.’

www.theguardian.com/society/2019/nov/20/police-transgender-rules-breach-right-to-free-speech-court-told

Requesting a female HCP may not yet be a hate crime but its enough to have you labeled transphopic and used as an example of transphobia in a hospitals trans policy.

Not if you trump it with religion.

We passed a man with long hair on the street and my son with asd also said:”is that a man or a woman and I said : “ that’s a man”. This man then told my son :” actually it’s a woman” This was very confusing to my son and very disturbing to us all. It made me feel very angry someone lying to my children like that. I started a thread about it but this was not allowed by mumsnet.

Religion, race, and disability are not seen as being as significant as trans status, according to the information provided further down by @Poota.

And the Equality Act protects women's rights to ask for single sex medical provision. The HCP letter referred to concerned a mammogram, which is intimate care . The patient's legal right to request such care is very plain, yet the letter was still used to train staff in identifying clearly unacceptable prejudice.

Orwellian is genuinely the right term. As is misogyny.

Religion, race, and disability are not seen as being as significant as trans status, according to the information provided further down by @Poota.

Some interpretations of some religions are very specific about women being only seen by women. When one of them runs smack into the trans debate, it will be a popcorn bonanza.

It doesn't sound like the youth in question just asked the question, though. It sounds like he wasn't in any interaction with the police and just shouted it out as an insult. Like 'is that a woman or a hippo' type of thing.

It sounds like he wasn't in any interaction with the police and just shouted it out as an insult. Like 'is that a woman or a hippo' type of thing.

If this were shouted by a 19 yr old male at a female PCOS who wasnt transgender do you think he would have been prosecuted by the CPS & punished this way?

If this were shouted by a 19 yr old male at a female PCOS who wasnt transgender do you think he would have been prosecuted by the CPS & punished this way?

Well, it wouldn't have been applicable on that instance.

Just like calling a white policeman a gorilla wouldn't be as likely to get you booked as shouting it at a black one (I think the latter could well get you in hot water).

Wonder what the officers, in the force with whom the "victim" works alongside, feel about this.

I can well imagine what they're saying behind the back

Thing is, a young woman with short hair getting this yelled at her would barely notice, because at least it weren't a gross sexual comment. Far worse happens pretty much every day, at that age

Exactly!

But sexist harassment is not a hate crime. Women & girls are the single protected category under the Equalities Act who are not protected by hate crime legislation. Go figure.

We have become so naturalised into everyday abuse of women it's seen as "normal" and "something girls have to learn to put up with." Or even more sexist: "why are you so upset? It's just words" or "just ignore it"

Look, I don't think that young lad should have been yelling rude or provocative things at the PCSO. But if he's autistic then there's the question of his ability to filter and control his thoughts.

But the PCSO should clearly have been able to deal with such a taunt. They need more training if they were so upset & disturbed by a street taunt. 50% of the population deal with street harassment every day. We shouldn't have to, of course we shouldn't. But we do.

@Jargoyle there's this thing called misogyny. You might try to google it one day, perhaps? The fact you can compare being a woman abused for appearance with a white person abused for race is screamingly telling.

I note the ableism has been deleted. Shame, in a way. Always good when people advertise precisely who, and what, they are.

@SpartacusAutisticus I think your autocorrect is a sharp judge of character, tbh.

Well, it wouldn't have been applicable on that instance.

The 'that' is your suggestion that he "just shouted it out as an insult. Like 'is that a woman or a hippo' type of thing."

You aligned what was said with a shouted insult to a female Police officer such as "is that a woman or a hippo type of thing"

In what way is it not applicable?

You drew the equivilence
Do you think female police officers are not shouted at in this way?
Should the CPS prosecute teenagers who shout such things at female police officers?

Absolutely Paperdolly.

When did we stop asking people in this kind of work to have emotional resilience?
My family has largely been employed in the medical field, and in the military. Both of these sectors have required them to ignore, or even protect or treat, people who were fairly unpleasant to them, usually undeservedly so. ER nurses are used to people being physically and verbally abusive, and even the GPs in my family regularly have patients that are not nice people. But they all still need medical care and someone has to provide it.

Adults generally should have the ability to rise above this kind of thing without emotional damage, and I mean directly and clearly intentionally insulting or provocative speech. It boggles my mind that this would rate at all with someone in any area of law enforcement, even if the person wasn't autistic.