Teen with Aspergers convicted of transgender hate crime, he asked is that a boy or a girl.

[HairyPotter]

www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/uk-news/duty-transgender-police-officer-left-17652064

While I completely understand it must be awful to be misgendered, it can’t come as a complete surprise that some transpeople don’t ‘pass’. If you can’t cope with people asking a perfectly reasonable (in their eyes) question, then maybe a job as a PCSO isn’t for you. I’m certain that the vast majority of officers have been called far worse with feeling the need to prosecute them. Maybe a different job or a thicker skin is required.

ASD kids who have parents able to scaffold them/navigate the education system on their behalf are bound to do better than those who are carers for their parents before they are even 20.

This. ^

@JanMeyer that's a really good point wrt ASD, actually! I stand corrected. I use ASD on here - I don't use it in speech - because it's briefer, really. My brother uses Aspergers, so grammatical or not, I will do so because he prefers it. Neither of mine have Aspergers dx because they're too young - they just have a diagnosis of ASD, and we use autistic.

ASD kids who have parents able to scaffold them/navigate the education system on their behalf are bound to do better than those who are carers for their parents before they are even 20.

Absolutely agree. The thing that is most upsetting of all about the current shitshow of SEN provision is that the 'lucky' parents are the ones able to borrow enough cash to fight through the system, and who know that they need to do so. And that's a minority. So are the parents able to pull their kids out to home ed, as an alternative. The rest of the kids - the majority - are just abysmally failed. But some autistic kids still know this, because their challenges lie in other areas. Not all kids are alike, and they do not need to be for this to be a grossly disproportionate response. That's the key issue here.

There's a real danger in always assuming the scenario that supports your position, in that those reading who do not support that position can dismiss us on that basis. I don't want to give ground by making unfounded assumptions, when the facts are already strong. This young man may not have known what he was doing was offensive, but would there have been a sentencing report? And if so, wouldn't that have been argued in mitigation? Yet there's no reference to that (which doesn't mean it didn't happen, but should mean we don't claim it as a fact, either).

I really dont think the police is the career for this PC, they need to change jobs qiuck.
My dad was a policeman (in NI so a bit different) but as well as being injured on duty more times than I can remember, spat at, attacked and called names, we had the army stay at our house for a few weeks when I was a small child due to a terrorist threat. There were never any arrests for this.

I'm sure there are plenty of PCs that have been harassed and name called, plenty our injured on duty throughout the UK yet ask a question to a trans person get labelled. Ridiculous.

CPS are very proud of it on Twitter. (Link below).

Public order offences at the start were viewed as worrying in terms of freedom of speech. The police have used them to arrest protesters or anyone they’re not keen on, the wording is so vague. Using them against “anti trans”, or, in this case, an autistic young man who made a trans man feel a bit embarrassed is inevitable given the new “woke” identity.

But that poor person. Let’s hope from now on in, only polite criminals cross their path, or they’re in for a bumpy ride.....
mobile.twitter.com/cpsuk/status/1222558220100800513

Thing is, a young woman with short hair getting this yelled at her would barely notice, because at least it weren't a gross sexual comment. Far worse happens pretty much every day, at that age.

Here a man is yelling it at another man, if the mantra of TMAM is to be taken at face value, and yet that's seen as a really serious offence.

The imbalance is really troubling. As is the heavy-handed response.

I'm also wondering at what point failing to use preferred pronouns will become seen as actionable. If things continue in this vein, that seems likely.

That twitter thread points out that the CPS declined to prosecute male voyeurs who secretly filmed women engaging in consensual sex - there is a pending Judicial Review - yet prosecuted this?

If we all decided to ID as transmen could we start getting cat callers, etc prosecuted?

@aridapricot sadly, i think this is less about the pcso being 'offended' and more about the disabled teenager being made an example of by the CPS. It's horrific and i sincerely hope his legal team are appealing this. The thought of my ASD son being arrested for asking a legitimate, if insensitive (because autism) question in a few years is terrifying. How can we protect disabled people in the new trans police state?

Because that's what we're living in now.

And it's not just autistic people who will be affected by these ridiculous 'laws'. Any number of conditions and disabilities could lead to that kind of lack of inhibition and straight talking. Can we start a petition?

If a vulnerable female patient asks/demands of the apparently male HCP intending to carry out intimate care or examination unchaperoned 'are you a man or a woman?' is this a potential hate crime if the HCP feels embarassed/upset?

December 2017

iNews 'NHS trust apologises to woman after 'nurse with stubble and deep voice' tried to take smear test'
(extract)
"The NHS has apologised to a woman who was left "embarrassed and distressed" after a nurse with stubble and a deep voice was going to carry out her cervical smear test at hospital.

The woman requested a female NHS nurse to perform the intimate procedure but was dismayed when a staff member with "an obviously male appearance" greeted her.

When the patient pointed out the mistake, the nurse replied: “My gender is not male. I’m a transsexual.” (continues)

inews.co.uk/news/health/nhs-woman-transgender-nurse-smear-test-515660

Can I now ask the police to prosecute everyone who's ever called or written to me as 'Sir'?

Can I now ask the police to prosecute everyone who's ever wolf-whistled at me?

Of course not! - I'm a woman, not a transwoman.

Wellbehavedwomen I take your point and I do agree. It’s just very shocking that this has happened. As for other conditions and disabilities; my grandad has dementia and has said some dreadfully inappropriate things to and about others. He wouldn’t even remember he’d seen them 30 seconds later never mind said something horrible.

is this a potential hate crime if the HCP feels embarassed/upset?

No, because there wouldn't have been an intention to cause distress. However, that doesn't mean the Police wouldn't go after someone because it would suit their purposes. And more importantly in the present climate many women would not object for fear of an accusation of bigotry.

A scary part of much of this stuff is second order effects.

Being unable to keep thoughts as unsaid thoughts therefore puts autistic people at greater risk of prosecution for crimes like this than non-autistics.

Dementia. Tourettes. Many conditions. This is an actively disablist policy. Likewise much of the TRA political lobby policy is racist and homophobic and deeply misogynistic.

The TRA political lobby's gambit is to argue that gender identity trumps everything else and anyone with gender identity protection is not required at any point to ever extend any, never mind equal, respect to other humans with different needs and rights protected under law.

This is where we see if the government roll over and agree that we now have a legal master race - and watch how that further destroys good feeling towards the LGBT community and relations between social groups - or is prepared to stand up for other humans having rights too. I won't hold my breath.

It also reminds of the hcp professional scenario:

A hcp who is distraught and offended (and takes action) because their patient is distressed and in need of a same sex hcp to meet their needs - is showing doubtful ability to understand or care for that patient or to prioritise their patient's needs and their work responsibilities over their own personal feelings. Which throws doubt on whether they're well enough trained or in the right job.

A police officer who is distraught and offended about someone with a social communication disability being socially inappropriate - (note not swearing, spitting, violent, threatening: that social inappropriacy is very arguable) is showing a doubtful ability to understand diversity and disability in the general public, and to be sufficiently resilient to prioritise working with people over their own personal feelings. Which throws doubt on whether they're well enough trained or in the right job.

"This is where we see if the government roll over and agree that we now have a legal master race"

They already have, judging by that CPS-published guidance on hate crimes for schools. It's on the government's website. It says that LGBT hate crime is much worse than any other hate crime committed against any other protected group.

is this a potential hate crime if the HCP feels embarassed/upset?
No, because there wouldn't have been an intention to cause distress

Its subjective though... isnt it possible that an individual in a health or care setting might 'feel' that there was intention to cause distress?

Patients who are frightened or anxious can react strongly.

It's never been discussed in parliament. It's never gone in a manifesto. CPS keep saying they don't make the law. We have a political lobby that is changing laws made democratically in parliament to their own personal interests.

I suppose at least Labour were honest about their intentions. At present it looks like the conservatives are going to whistle innocently and pretend not to notice while they let it happen.

I am seething about this. It's underhanded, it's unethical and its morally wrong.

When a police officer or comparable public servant puts on a uniform they are in a position of power. They must be able to separate their personal feelings from a situation. They should be trained to de escalate confrontation. They should also undergo disability training to recognise signs autism or other conditions and act appropriately.
While this Officer should be entitled to counselling etc if they feel 'upset' the fact that they chose to use the law for their personal validation means they aren't suited to the serious job they've taken.
'Is it a man or a woman' was a pretty common comment when men started to wear their hair long decades ago. What is the statute of limitations, maybe we should hold an inquiry into historical misgendering.

Nothing to add, but decided to listen to some classic Bowie ... "Rebel Rebel"

I don’t feel this as biased as pp are saying.
Looking at the article, the pcso does pass as a man. Unless they’ve changed their appearance, then I would be suspicious that the shouter knew their past, and that it was a targeted shout rather than a questioning one.

You’ve seen a photo - not them in real life - their size, shape, how they walk and talk. M2F can have face refining surgery and have Adam’s Apple removed - but what can F2M do beyond grow facial fair?

You can’t tell from a photo whether the PCSO passes when walking down the street. Height, shape, gait all play a part.

Fewer rapes now being reported - fewer prosecutions. Is that because the police are too busy?