Teen with Aspergers convicted of transgender hate crime, he asked is that a boy or a girl.

[HairyPotter]

www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/uk-news/duty-transgender-police-officer-left-17652064

While I completely understand it must be awful to be misgendered, it can’t come as a complete surprise that some transpeople don’t ‘pass’. If you can’t cope with people asking a perfectly reasonable (in their eyes) question, then maybe a job as a PCSO isn’t for you. I’m certain that the vast majority of officers have been called far worse with feeling the need to prosecute them. Maybe a different job or a thicker skin is required.

I think what so many of us are missing, as per the recent CPS restricted guidance on bullying and hate crimes, is that LGBTQ+ people find what they perceive as bullying much, much worse than those with other protected characteristics.

So this Trans police worker, having perceived these questions as wounding to their very core identity, would have found it much more difficult to deal with, as LGBTQ+ people worry about others in their community being abused and bullied in a way that others from other protected characteristics, like those with disabilities, do not.

It's only right, as per CPS guidance, that this young man with Asperger's face the full penalty for the injury to the Trans police worker, to reflect the extra significance of the offence.

Sounds like his legal advice was possibly poor too.

Can you imagine if women flung ourselves to the ground wailing dramatically every time a man said something offensive to us? I mean, obviously we wouldn't, because who has the time even if they have no dignity, but if we did people would think we'd lost our marbles rather than rushing to offer sympathy and prosecution of the person who'd upset us.

Did you just say this is worse than racism?

I’m hoping Poota’s post was satire.

That’s how I read it...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7943259/Judge-orders-yob-19-pay-200-damages-transgender-PCSO.html

Daily Mail went all out - awful reporting. Yob ffs!

Judge orders yob, 19, to pay £200 damages to transgender PCSO, 25, after shouting 'is it a boy or is it a girl' while he was on patrol on town
• Declan Armstrong, 19, abused PCSO Connor Freel as he was on foot patrol
• Armstrong shouted 'is it a boy or is it a girl' at PCSO Freel, who is transgender
• Mold Magistrates' Court convicted Armstrong of using abusive language
• He was handed to a night time curfew and pay £590 in costs and compensation

The TRAs I know tend to be very anti-police and anti 'carceral feminism' (ie women who think the law ought to protect their rights too).

I wonder how they square this with the evident wider scrambling of the CPS, police forces, and every other misogynistic public body to prosecute those who don't believe in their ideology.

It's ridiculous. Even the question, 'is it a boy or a girl' sounds quite child like and innocent. No foul language, no threat, no crude reference to genitals. Ridiculous.

I read poota's post as satire - but it is so frightening that this is the CPS's thought process, it must be.

Yes it must be hurtful to the trans man to come up against the hard fact that they don't pass as well as maybe they thought - but the important fact is the lack of egality here. The police simply cannot prosecute all cases of hurt feelings for the protected groups - they'd never do anything else! And it's demonstrative that they wouldn't even try to legislate for women facing misogyny - misogyny wasn't even written into the legislation. And women are also a protected group.

I'm glad that threads like this exist here because they show everyone that, even if you took away all the supposed concerns about self-ID etc, some people here would still have an issue with the fact that someone is trans. That's just hateful prejudice. If you substituted black, Muslim, gay etc for trans in some of the posts on this forum there would be no doubt about the hate that exists in some people's minds. And some people criticising this story are probably the worst hypocrites. I'll bet some suggesting a trans person is supposed to just accept abuse and get on with it would be knocking at the door of their human resources department... despite their convenient claims that they would just ignore it.

I got shouted at 'are you a boy or a girl' all the time as a child, as a girl with short hair, and I was fine with it. I understand it may be a more sensitive issue for a trans person, however - trans people, as I understand it, are a protected group, and women with short hair aren't and there are reasons for that.

At the same time, I do think the response was OTT

I haven't 'decided the guy was guilty' - I am saying the title of this thread an subsequent discussions seem to be presenting this as though 'innocent child with autism made an honest mistake' and the circumstances don't seem that way to me. Unless he totally randomly decided to shout 'Are you a boy or a girl?' at a random man and it was awfully bad luck that man happened to be a trans man who looked unambiguously male (which this guy does). Maybe IRL the guy is small and slight, but surely you'd shout out 'shortarse!' or something rather than querying their gender?

Seems to me:
Mistake - unlikely
Hate-filled invective - also probably unlikely
Intended as a bit of a joke without realising how upsetting it was - quite possibly

So all in, charge probably not very fair considering accused guy's social issues.

@TreestumpsAndTrampolines

I wonder if this isn't a direct action opportunity - report every incidence of street harassment, so they understand the magnitude of what women put up with as a matter of course.

That's what I was thinking. Report all instances of "show us your tits", holding up this story as an example of how no misdemeanour is too small to warrant the full force of the law.

I don't have a problem with someone being trans snowblight

I have a problem with a teenage lad being criminalised, called a yob in the press, fined, curfewed, when he's a clearly a vulnerable adult, for saying "is it a boy or is it a girl".

Hope that clears it up for you.

moderate it's a nice idea, but unfortunately women are not protected from abuse or misogyny by this law.

... teenage lad being criminalised, called a yob in the press, fined, curfewed..

£200 of that was compensation

Declan Armstrong, 19, was put under a nightime curfew and ordered to pay £590 - including the £200 compensation to PCSO Freel.

*I have a problem with a teenage lad being criminalised, called a yob in the press, fined, curfewed, when he's a clearly a vulnerable adult, for saying "is it a boy or is it a girl".

Hope that clears it up for you.*

Yes, I'm sure there would be a thread here if the victim was anything other than trans.

Men couldn't afford to make misogyny a crime if they'd have to pay £200 for each conviction.

Yes, I'm sure there would be a thread here if the victim was anything other than trans.

I'm doubtful there'd be a conviction to be reported tbf.

When I was 15, a boy used to sit behind me in RE and describe in detail what he'd like to do to me with the help of a jar of Vaseline. No one thought for a moment that he should be prosecuted. Though they did admittedly realize he was a nasty piece of work and he was not allowed to carry on into the sixth form.

Snowblight, do you think he should have been prosecuted? I'm just a tedious female, in case that informs your judgement.

But if the ‘victim’ wasn’t ‘trans’ this never would’ve been prosecuted so there would be no news story and thus no thread!

Crikey, Snowblight, have a listen to yourself!

Snowblight - a PP said this thread should go on the main boards - and I agree with that.

This case though, happens to be part and parcel of the legislation we're discussing at length here on FWR. It is legislation that is going into our children's schools, and will impact women who want to define "woman" as an 'adult human female', our children who want to discuss sex and gender in schools. Therefore it is also relevant to this board.

Attached is a screenshot from the CPS schools training which has been causing waves.

In it, you will clearly read that insults towards LGBT+ people are worse than insults towards others with protected characteristics. It's not me saying this - read for yourselves.

likewise the 50 or more teenage girls who were raped by a gang in Glasgow of over 10 asylum seekers from Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Morocco, Pakistan TWO YEARS ago. But the police did not report it in the media (or did they demand it pe supressed and a compliant media said yes?) One or two convictions and jail here, one or two deported and some whose fate is not known. Hey ho just poor bad girls - That which the Right hand possess is thine to do with what thy will?

This is terrifying.