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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Kicked out of club for wearing LGB Alliance Tshirt

318 replies

Imnobody4 · 19/01/2020 11:50

twitter.com/satiricole/status/1218744161874186242?s=19
This is just so wrong. How can this happen in the 21st century. No oppressed group ever had such power. Just have to dig some more.

OP posts:
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HandsOffMyRights · 19/01/2020 16:53

No, Lord it's always women.

HandsOffMyRights · 19/01/2020 16:54

...By men

ScrimshawTheSecond · 19/01/2020 16:54

I would be interested to know if there were any males wearing LGB Alliance T-shirts in there.

Odd how it's always the lesbians taking the heat, isn't it?

Lordfrontpaw · 19/01/2020 16:55

@ HandsOffMyRights well, colour me shocked...

RedToothBrush · 19/01/2020 17:00

Indeed CharlieParley

You can be same sex attracted and trans.

It's about recognising the sex part of sexual attraction. Not saying that being trans is some how 'bad'.

It is saying it is bad when being trans is used as an excuse to legitimise ignoring other people's sexual orientation and freedom of sexual expression.

And there are trans people who are part of the LGB Alliance who are saying this because they are homosexual but identify as the opposite sex.

BovaryX · 19/01/2020 17:00

Make no mistake this is a men's rights rule society

The National Theatre bar episode astonished me. It's just rampant misogyny masquerading behind woke. It's quite incredible that the misogyny is so blatant

ScrimshawTheSecond · 19/01/2020 17:09

It's quite incredible that the misogyny is so blatant

I think the fact that it's just misogyny is maybe why so many people are so dismissive of the problems. We live in a society soaked in misogyny - to such an extent that nobody counts misogyny as a hate crime because it's so widespread - and people are so used to seeing the world through that lens that they can't see the staggering sexism ingrained in the movement.

It's the 'male toilets plus unisex' ones that just makes my jaw hit the floor. How much more blatant can it be? Men just wanna pee - and so they can - everywhere. Women can pee where they're told to, so long as they accept males in there with them.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 19/01/2020 17:13

Another thing apparent from Twitter is how badly informed they are about the law

It's like Harry the Owl said, they don't understand the difference between policy and law. And when Stonewall is writing all the policies, and telling people they are law...

BovaryX · 19/01/2020 17:17

You know Scrimshaw one of the things I found so shocking and learned about from this forum was the Maria M case. There is a violent hatred which seems close to the surface in a lot of this. There is also this fanatical desire to compel and control Comparing a LBG t shirt to neo nazis? It's delusional. But it's very disturbing. I think the 'hate speech ' tag is being used by authoritarians to control language. It's profoundly regressive

RedToothBrush · 19/01/2020 17:17

Telling heterosexual males that it's not OK to try and sleep with lesbians or to try and sleep with lesbians is not a new thing nor a controversial one.

Or at least it shouldn't be.

That's the most an lgb alliance t-shirt says.

Wearing that to an LGBT club shouldn't therefore be controversial unless there are people who have a problem with lesbians asserting their legal right to their sexuality which is protected by law.

Anyone willing to argue why this is politically unacceptable as a statement or why it is controversial?

BovaryX · 19/01/2020 17:20

It's like Harry the Owl said, they don't understand the difference between policy and law. And when Stonewall is writing all the policies, and telling people they are law..

Absolutely agree. It's a deliberate tactic. To act as if it's the law, thus making it practice while agitating to get the law changed, thus making it legally binding. Policy by the backdoor

HandsOffMyRights · 19/01/2020 17:21

The normalisation of misogyny is so commonplace

This is an old article from back when The Guardian seemed to support women. I've lifted the quote from there to illustrate how misogyny is normalised and treated so casually, but this piece, coincidentally, is about Topshop's range of misogynistic TShirts which featured a range of slogans abusing females.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/sep/15/topman-tshirts-misogyny-commonplace-mundane

morningtoncrescent62 · 19/01/2020 17:21

If people got out from behind their keyboards and their little echo chamber and met members of the wider LGBT community they'd find minimal support for the LGB Alliance.

I work for a large employer which has an LGBT+ network for staff. It's supposed to be representative of all LGBT employees, and 'allies' can join as well. It runs some jolly social events that I used to attend, but in the last couple of years it's been pumping out more and more trans extremist propaganga. I can't remember the last time they posted anything to their email list regarding lesbians or lesbian rights, but most weeks there's something about transgenderism - an advert for an event run by the staff network or someone else promoting their version of trans rights, or links to posts by Scottish Trans Alliance or Stonewall.

Older lesbians like me are pretty much immune to it. I don't go to their socials any more but I've stayed on the network because I want to know what they're saying. I know many lesbian colleagues who've asked to come off the mailing list because they're fed up and don't want to be in a network that doesn't represent them. It seems to me that my younger colleagues are much less immune to the constant flow of messages telling them that 'trans-exclusionary feminists' are the enemy, and telling them what to do, what to say, and how to think if they want to be a good trans ally. So no, I wouldn't expect much support for the LGB Alliance amongst the LGBT community in my workplace, but that's because they only hear one side of what's happening, and they hear it long and loud. I very much think that's going on in other places too.

T0tallyFuckedUpFamily · 19/01/2020 17:21

This is one tweet that shows just how inclusive the manager is towards Bi people. Given that comment, I also find it hard to believe he has much respect for any women.

Kicked out of club for wearing LGB Alliance Tshirt
ScrimshawTheSecond · 19/01/2020 17:26

'woman - adult human female' - billboards removed:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45650462

'Lesbian: a woman who loves other women' - women ejected from bar.

www.theguardian.com/stage/2019/jul/06/national-theatre-defends-asking-lesbians-to-leave-bar

LGB Alliance - link at the top! - woman ejected from nightclub.

Women have also been castigated by Munroe Bergdorf for wearing 'pussy hats' on the Women's March.

twitter.com/munroebergdorf/status/954775972863193088?lang=en

Anything else women shouldn't be wearing, saying or thinking?

Kicked out of club for wearing LGB Alliance Tshirt
Datun · 19/01/2020 17:58

The LBG Alliance specifically says that sex is more important than gender.

More important? More important how? Than what?

The intimidation and rank hypocrisy is breathtaking.

A trans lesbian is interested in women. They absolutely know what sexual orientation is when it comes to their own.

Sexual orientation is a protected characteristic, and it is based on sex. It's not based on gender, anywhere. It's not that one is more important than the other, it's that one defines sexual orientation, and the other one doesn't

aliasundercover · 19/01/2020 18:05

What I dislike is the lack of options for LGB people:

If you attend any LGBT event/group you have to act in a way that is approved by TRAs, otherwise you are transphobic.
If you decide instead to attend and LGB event/group instead that is also transphobic.

The only correct choice for LGB people is to go to LGBT events/groups and behave exactly as the TRAs tell you. Anything else is transphobic.

Imagine the fuss that TRAs would make if an LGB club opened, somewhere where lesbians were safe to wear LGB Alliance t-shirts without risk of offending anyone - this world be a terribly transphobic thing to do! It would deny transgender people existence! It would make them feel unsafe! It would probably be 'literal violence' to them!

The only answer for LGB people - lesbians in particular - is to stick with LGBT events and do what you're fucking told.
This is exactly why the LGB Alliance was formed in the first place.

wellbehavedwomen · 19/01/2020 18:17

Anyone supporting the notion that women are not allowed boundaries against natal males without being hateful, and gay people are not allowed to be same-sex attracted but must also accept a person's subjective feelings about their mental gender instead, is supporting homophobia and misogyny. It's not transphobic to recognise biological sex is real, and matters, and affects women and gay people especially. On the contrary; it's bigotry to deny the validity of biological sex, because you also deny women's worldwide, millennia-long oppression, and that same sex attraction is a reasonable and valid orientation.

Women's oppression doesn't arise because we identify into a gender. It's based upon biological sex. Denial of that, and creating a new system whereby gender is a choice, removes the ability to name, and therefore challenge, sex-based oppression. And that is wrong. It's silencing, abusive, and breathtakingly effective. Men's Rights Activists must be open-mouthed in admiration.

As for, "why does their website mention trans people?" Well, funnily enough, feminist websites often mention men. If you're creating an org. to protect the interests of one group, threatened by another, you need to explain how, and why the other group's interests are being privileged against your own, and why that's a problem. It doesn't equal hatred of the other group - there are male allies to feminism, and trans people supporting both Women's Place and the LGB Alliance.

I can only imagine anyone posing that question agrees that all feminists must hate men, because they point out that sex-based oppression is a real thing that exists. Then again, perhaps they're too busy insisting feminists hate trans people to invoke the men one, these days.

wellbehavedwomen · 19/01/2020 18:23

Women have also been castigated by Munroe Bergdorf for wearing 'pussy hats' on the Women's March.

Also saying women shouldn't centre reproductive rights, because that's exclusionary.

Curious, because in that interview with Juno Dawson, Jess Phillips insisted that that never happens, and nobody says women can't talk about these issues or be exclusionary, and nobody is erasing women as a 'problematic' term. Only Cancer Research UK, and the government talking about periods, and Amnesty talking about abortions, and and and and... this never happens, right? We're all dreaming it.

midcenturylegs · 19/01/2020 18:33

Ah Totally I totally fuckedupand got the wrong person as the manager of the bar.

Why do gay men get away with banning transmen from their clubs? Silly question I guess

ThinEndoftheWedge · 19/01/2020 18:34

Not sure if anyone has yet posted OJ’s view... Surprise surprise...

mobile.twitter.com/alexrubner/status/1218874024585048064

Datun · 19/01/2020 18:39

I sincerely hope that the LGB alliance help this woman to get this flagged with the police.

If they can check Harry the Owl's thinking, they can check this club's awful behaviour.

Clubs, pubs, restaurants, they all need to know it's unacceptable to throw women out for their sexual orientation.

Qcng · 19/01/2020 18:42

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Qcng · 19/01/2020 18:45

Huh?

Qcng · 19/01/2020 18:45

That's a new one.