Kicked out of club for wearing LGB Alliance Tshirt

[Imnobody4]

twitter.com/satiricole/status/1218744161874186242?s=19
This is just so wrong. How can this happen in the 21st century. No oppressed group ever had such power. Just have to dig some more.

And which toilets will they be using at LGB Alliance HQ?

The ones that everyone else uses outside of the woke bandwagon - toilets are segregated by sex, not gender, you know. It's a global standard.

Trans people are not a monolith. Some are capable of accepting reality and are proud to be trans, knowing that their personal decisions don't magically transform them into the opposite sex. And they know that sexual orientation is a thing, and it's what human beings base their attraction on.

Trans people who are L or G or B and aren't in denial about biological sex and sexual orientation would find the aims of LGB Alliance resonate with them.

Wow. The homophobia exhibited by some on this thread is shocking - slandering an organisation simply because they representing people who are same sex attracted!

WotchaTalkinBoutWillis
Bad example. You are not good at gotchas
It would be the same if an event for all Manchester football clubs insisted Man U tshirts also included support for Man City

Some are capable of accepting reality and are proud to be trans, knowing that their personal decisions don't magically transform them into the opposite sex

And the flip side of that argument is that some are not capable of accepting reality and believe in magic.

And along with the ‘the only thing needed for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing’ theme, that t-shirt is basically saying to trans people ‘At best, I think you’re deluded, at worst, Nazis’.

You are not good at gotchas
It wasn't meant to be a gotcha
You know people are capable of disagreeing with you without it being a case of trying to catch you out, right?

Why would they think that T-shirt suggests they are Nazis, unless they recognise the trans narrative, shutting down debate, demanding the removal of books, stopping academics speaking, sending threats to anyone hosting women’s group, trying to get people sack is reminiscent of facism? If so, then surely they would also recognise that having a young woman thrown out of a club for wearing a T-shirt onto which they have projected this understanding merely supports it?

that t-shirt is basically saying to trans people ‘At best, I think you’re deluded, at worst, Nazis

Can you please explain with clarity how an LGB shirt in anyway invokes Nazis?

that t-shirt is basically saying to trans people ‘At best, I think you’re deluded, at worst, Nazis

That's quite some reach

Joanna Cherry, QC, the SNPNP_ MP for Edinburgh South West, said: “Throwing someone out of a bar and refusing them a service on grounds of their sexuality is a breach of the Equality Act. Basically saying you can’t be a lesbian unless you’re my kind of lesbian, from a man, is unacceptable.”^

So there you go, thread peeps!

And which toilets will they be using at LGB Alliance HQ?

Probably not some where the males can see into the female toilet without them knowing. Unlike G1 group had in one of their establishments.

So there you go, thread peeps!

That's some sensible tweet - thanks Eresh

they formed in a split from Stonewall because trans people were pissing them off

No, because they didn't agree with the direction Stonewall were going in and considered it homophobic in some cases.

Probably not some where the males can see into the female toilet without them knowing. Unlike G1 group had in one of their establishments.

That story has made me really leery using toilets in bars and clubs.
It actually makes me cross that I even have to doubt my privacy and that some men are so bloody amoral.

And if that's what they do when we have social conventions 'protecting' us, how much worse will it be when those conventions are taken away.

And if that's what they do when we have social conventions 'protecting' us, how much worse will it be when those conventions are taken away.

YY, exactly.

And the flip side of that argument is that some are not capable of accepting reality and believe in magic.

Society must not overhaul its laws and social conventions (which are based on sound arguments and reality) to placate the few who are steeped in magical thinking, no matter how deeply held or genuine their belief.

There is nothing kind in encouraging an anorexic in their deeply held belief that they are overweight is valid and that they should be encouraged to keep dieting and starving themselves due to their inability to accept reality.

There is nothing kind in encouraging someone with body dysmorphia that their deeply held belief that aspects of their face or body are hideous and that they should be encouraged to keep having cosmetic and plastic surgery after surgery due to their inability to accept reality.

There is nothing kind in encouraging someone with schizophrenia that the voices they are hearing in their head are real or that they are actually the Messiah and that they should be encouraged to follow any paranoid thoughts or feelings due to their inability to accept reality.

There is nothing kind in telling someone that yes they can actually change sex with hormones and surgery or that their deeply held desire and beliefs about being the opposite sex means they have an unquestionable right to insert themselves into single sex spaces and claim various resources and services for themselves.

We can show compassion for people who are struggling with reality without encouraging such beliefs and going along with whatever is said. The way to deal with such delusions is to keep stating the truth and focusing on reality. When people are struggling with their perceptions, they need the help of those around them to be reminded to ground themselves in what is real and true.

If those on the gender identity bandwagon are willing to be honest with themselves and the general public that they are immersed in magical thinking and that they believe in gender souls that inhabit all of us, then gender identity ideology should be classed as a religious belief and treated accordingly by society.
You can have your belief in gender souls, but you don't get to impose your magical thinking in schools in attempts to indoctrinate and recruit young recruits. You don't get to impose your magical thinking on public bodies and institutions and demand that laws place your beliefs above everyone else's. And you don't get to scream at those who disagree with you or threaten and intimidate them or assault them, or try to get them fired from their jobs, call organisations hate groups etc.

FFS this was a nightclub. I'd understand the argument about it being disingenuous if someone had rocked up to a Stonewall committee meeting, but it was a club. For gay people. A club.

that t-shirt is basically saying to trans people ‘At best, I think you’re deluded, at worst, Nazis’.

That seems like radical interpretation of the text....

essentially this is the message the T have imposed on the LGB, particularly the L: you may be homosexual if you're very quiet about it, make all the right noises we tell you and do exactly as we say.

Some homosexual people don't find this acceptable. This is homophobia. This is a group standing up for homosexual people and lobbying to ensure any laws passed are not homophobic.

Conflict of opinions going on, but this is what happens when you want your fundamental rights to be those stripped from other people. The people whose interests you are abusing are under no compulsion to be deferentially nice to you while you do it, or indeed be expected to behave better towards you than you feel entitled to behave towards them.

Have you yet seen any homosexual person try to get someone in a Stonewall t shirt flung out of a bar? It's rather like asking have you yet seen a GC woman make rape threats against anti woman activists? It isn't the opinions or the messages or the lobbying; it's the behaviour that is unacceptable.

Or threats against anyone speaking out - the recent one on social media against Harry the Owl was actually very sinister and vile.

The incident has led to angry exchanges between the LGB Alliance supporters and trans activists. The LGB Alliance was branded “trans-exclusionary” and a hate group for promoting the views that “biological sex is real” and “sex is binary, not a spectrum”.

Anyone reading that is going to think wtf??

Joanna Cherry, QC, the SNP MP for Edinburgh South West, said "...Basically saying you can’t be a lesbian unless you’re my kind of lesbian, from a man, is unacceptable.”

...and then they'll get it.

This is Stonewall's definition of homosexual:
Homosexual
This might be considered a more medical term used to describe someone who has an emotional, romantic and/or sexual orientation towards someone of the same gender. The term ‘gay’ is now more generally used.

This is the definition of homophobia on Wikipedia:
Homophobia encompasses a range of negative attitudes and feelings toward homosexuality or people who are identified or perceived as being lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender (LGBT). It has been defined as contempt, prejudice, aversion, hatred or antipathy, may be based on irrational fear and ignorance, and is often related to religious beliefs.

Homophobia is observable in critical and hostile behavior such as discrimination and violence on the basis of sexual orientations that are non-heterosexual. Recognized types of homophobia include institutionalized homophobia, e.g. religious homophobia and state-sponsored homophobia, and internalized homophobia, experienced by people who have same-sex attractions, regardless of how they identify.

Stonewall's definition of homosexual is institutionally homophobic as it is based on gender, therefore how people identify, rather than their sex.

This is why the LGB Alliance was set up.

Wearing a t-shirt that says LGB Alliance on it, is a statement of this.

Those who believe in the Stonewall definition are homophobic and do not like being called out on it.

Saying that this is in anyway being like a nazi is pretty special in this context. I have to question anyone who defends the Stonewall definition. Especially if they are prattling on about how it's like a nazi to point out institutionalised and internalised homophobia.

That's quite some reach

Post before yours literally says the trans narrative....is reminiscent of fascism

And the poster who quotes Niemöller in a quote that’s about Nazis coming for various groups and the need to speak out to change legislation.

So one side is going ‘hate speech’ and the other side is going ‘fascists’.

And that just makes things worse.

Also the Equality act defines homosexuality as follows:

12Sexual orientation
(1)Sexual orientation means a person's sexual orientation towards—
(a)persons of the same sex,
(b)persons of the opposite sex, or
(c)persons of either sex.
(2)In relation to the protected characteristic of sexual orientation—
(a)a reference to a person who has a particular protected characteristic is a reference to a person who is of a particular sexual orientation;
(b)a reference to persons who share a protected characteristic is a reference to persons who are of the same sexual orientation.

In effect if you are using the Stonewall definition of homosexuality as the basis of your equality policy on homosexuality you are running the risk of being in breach of the equality act.

This is why changing birth certificates is so controversial. It could in effect be homophobic if this is affecting lesbians in particular disproportionately.

Is wearing a t-shirt of an organisation which is an activist about the problem 'goady' or 'raising awareness'?

If you think that Stonewall is acting in a way which is homophobic then your argument that the t-shirt wearer is 'goady' starts to fall apart. If you dont think Stonewall's definition is homophobic, I'd love to hear why you don't think it is.

The reductio ad absurdum of the Stonewall definition of being a lesbian is, of course, that you could have two male bodied people performing fellatio on each other's penises, and for that to be a lesbian act if that is how they identify themselves.

Which seems a bit mad, don't you think? The word "lesbian" has come entirely unmoored from its meaning in that scenario.

So I am wholly supportive of lesbians (and gay men and bisexuals, and trans people who are same sex attracted, too) carving out a space where such obliteration of meaning does not occur, and asserting their identity in a way that they are not currently permitted to do in Stonewall World. T-shirts and all.

And the poster who quotes Niemöller in a quote that’s about Nazis coming for various groups and the need to speak out to change legislation.

It's a frequently used quote that can be applied to many other situations, not just the Nazis!

noble is there a reason why you didn't quote the rest of my sentence? Do you think acknowledging that the trans narrative requiring books to be removed from libraries, hounding people out of jobs, threatening venues holding meeting, censoring academics, issuing death threats etc might undermine your argument?