Q - what is it exactly,

[WelshMoth]

Can someone please explain what the Q is in LGBTQ?

Thanks.

*none

Q is a way of letting straight people and fetishists into the LGBT.

@TwitcherOfCurtains I personally use enby or non binary rather than NB because I know that acronym is already used in AAVE and I don't want people to get mixed up! As for whether a heterosexual couple could identify as queer, I would not call them queer. If either or both were bi/pan though and they were comfortable with the label then I would say the individuals were queer but not the relationship.
I don't think it is about letting straight people into the LGBTQ+ community, though some people might say they are to be a part of it which I don't really agree with but I think for most it's just about having a broadly defined word which isn't as gate-kept as others.
Also, and I can only go by my own experience here, I don't think it's about being individual. I personally love community and togetherness and it could even be the opposite to that point - people using a broad word for a broad community which brings people together and shares and celebrates their shared experiences, interests and feelings. That's my own experience anyway

@NonnyMouse1337 not sure whether your comment was aimed at the original quote but if it was it is just an interview with a musician, not a piece of academic literature. It's very hard to talk about personal things like that, especially when under pressure in an interview scenario. I think, if you were referring to that, you're reading too much into it!

Looks like Dave Chappelle was right. The alphabet people are coming for you.

Pan and demi are the ones I don’t understand.
How is pan different from bi? Bi is finding both sexes attractive, so who the heck else is pan for? (I’m assuming we are excluding paedophilia and beastiality, but what do I know.)
Demi means half, so is that someone with a reduced interest in sex? (Waves to other menopausal women in solidarity with our new label)

One of my teens is heavily into all this and I just want to cry out “a sexuality or identity isn’t a substitute for a personality!”
So endlessly focused on labels and subdivisions.

What is AAVE?

ACatWhoBinds my comment was a fairly general one around the topic. Not specifically aimed at the musician's quote. :)

A lot of queer lingo and literature that I've come across seems very poorly written or worded. Using superfluous words to convey some sort of superior or profound meaning when there doesn't really seem to be any.

If the so called queer community did their own thing, and minded their own business, it wouldn't be so bad. But although most are nice people, at least on the surface, there's still this arrogance and superiority and they like to metaphorically wag their finger at everyone whether in person or online, correcting and lecturing everyone who isn't as 'evolved' as them, when it's quite obvious that they lack sufficient self awareness to see how some of their attitudes and ideas can also be very racist etc. Colonising and appropriating terms and definitions like bisexuality for their benefit and then having the temerity to turn around and tell the rest off because we are able to form opinions that are different from them.

I've ordered that book btw, any more suggestions welcome.

AAVE is “African- American Vernacular English” so NB in a US context could mean non- black. NB would not be as cool if it could be confused with that, so enby is preferred, even on a UK site...

A lot of queer lingo and literature that I've come across seems very poorly written or worded. Using superfluous words to convey some sort of superior or profound meaning when there doesn't really seem to be any

Nonny, I reckon you would like Douglas Murray's book too because he's absolutely scathing about this. The linguistic thing is interesting because as you say, its aim is obfuscation Why? Language's primary function is communication, so clarity is central. What's with the tortured, twisted prose and invented words? What precisely does non binary mean?

Douglas Murray says this about Butler et al

Of course when it's nearly impossible to tell what is being said, almost anything can be said and exceptionally dishonest arguments can be smuggled in under the guise of complexity. This is one of the reasons why Butler and others write so badly

@NonnyMouse1337 ah, ok, I understand! :~)
I haven't really read much queer literature myself so can't really comment on that aspect of it!
@OneEpisode it's not about it no looking 'cool', it's that people have expressed to me and others that they don't like the term being used. Being white, I don't have the lived experience of what the terms and community mean so I'd rather try and make the effort to not use it. Not all people object to it but I think it's not my place to say what words are appropriated from PoC.

NB is nota bene. Something we all had to learn to use when practising academic writing, back when that was a thing.

Look at Mockers appropriating from dead Romans who can’t defend their own terms..

Fiestar, thank you for taking the time to answer.

There are some women like Hannah Gadsby and Abby McEnany who dress in a 'masculine' style.

There are some men like Grayson Perry and Ru Paul who dress in a 'feminine' style.

Do you happen to know if the people you have mentioned above describe themselves as GNC?

Or is it OK ascribe GNC to a person?

So are you saying that identifying as Queer gives you a sense of belonging/community ACatWhoBinds? I don't think that's a bad thing and can sort of see it from that view point.
(Have you though of joining a church? Not only do you get a sense of community but FREE, yes FREE tea and biscuits! )

Btw, what do you think of genders such as Novigender?

When I google Grayson Perry and Ru Paul , I don’t see images that look feminine . I’ve never seen a woman who looks anything like 99% of these photos.

The clothes, hair and make up might be colourful /creative / striking, but the don’t look like a woman.

I think there's even a movement to drop all the letters from LGBTQIA down to Q but it's not getting much traction because so many English speaking countries still see the word "queer" as an unforgiveable slur

I cannot adequately express how much I hope this never gains any traction and slides all the way down into oblivion.

Very recently I was asked if I was LGBTQ, and I've been trying to formulate why I dislike it some much. Firstly, because it's ridiculously cumbersome. No, I am not B, I am not T, so I am not LGBTQ.
But then I unpacked it some more and I realized the Q stands for Queer, and that person was saying 'Are you queer?' and my god, the realization hit me in the gut with the offence of it. I know they meant it in an entirely wokey nice way, but it's like listening to elderly relatives talking about the P*ki shop or the darkies or saying that Craig Revel Horwood is a poof. They don't mean it in a consciously nasty way either, they're using the words out of habit, familiarity and ignorance. But it's still genuinely awful to hear, and if someone were ever to say to me at work 'Are you queer?' I actually think I'd raise a grievance, however inclusively terminologied up they thought they were being.

Gay men joshing about with each other, using certain anti-gay slur terms is one thing, and actually, I think it speaks of a deep wounded sense of defiance in the face of rejection. It's not a cue to take that slur and apply it to a vaguely defined group, many of whom will have had it used, accompanied by intimidation and violence against them.

“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.”
“The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”
“The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master—that’s all.”

Just trying to clarify the difference between ace/demi and choosing not to have sex/not wanting sex.

Asexual people do not experience sexual attraction. So for example if you are a fully heterosexual woman you are not sexually attracted to other women, asexual people do not experience sexual attraction at all to anyone.

Demisexual is the same principle but that person can develop sexual attraction to specific people once they have a close bond with that person. So again using the heterosexual woman example, you are not attracted to other women but you suddenly develop feelings for certain women after becoming very close (emotionally) with them.

It's also not a choice, that's celibacy, and it's nothing to do with sex-drive/libido...which can be high or low in an asexual/demisexual person just as it can in a person of any sexuality.

Many ace/demi people also describe themselves in terms of their romantic attraction (who they fall in love with) and this can be same sex as themselves, different, both, or neither.

Because homoromantic asexual or heteroromantic demisexual is a bit long-winded many ace/demi people will use either queer or gay/lesbian/bi instead although as gay/lesbian/bisexual specifically refer to the sexuality of a person queer is often preferred as it's more accurate to the 'real' sexuality/romantic orientation of the person.

So ace/demi are expressions of who you are attracted to not what you want to do with them/how much you want to do it.

@TwitcherOfCurtains I think it can bring a sense of community, but just in the same way being a Labour Party Member, going to a Billy Bragg gig, going to a protest or exchanging cat photos with a friend does. I personally think it's unhealthy to invest wholly in one thing, but also could be indicative of mental health etc. - not that I'm qualified to diagnose, just my own experience of being focussed on my depression and that becoming the only part of my personality I recognised. People need a range of interests and communities.
As for the different genders, I don't know what a lot of them mean but I think if they help a person to feel more comfortable with themselves and help them understand themselves it's not a bad thing.

Thanks for the recommendation, BovaryX. I shall have a look at his latest book. :)

If you're interested in an academic takedown of Judith Butler, I'd recommend a paper by Martha Nussbaum published in 1999 called 'The Professor of Parody'.
I couldn't find a direct link to the PDF, but found an online version of the file I downloaded a while ago.

perso.uclouvain.be/mylene.botbol/Recherche/GenreBioethique/Nussbaum_NRO.htm

Thank you @loopsdefruit, that’s a little clearer. I appreciate your taking the time.

Any word on how Pan differs from Bi?

queef