Q - what is it exactly,

[WelshMoth]

Can someone please explain what the Q is in LGBTQ?

Thanks.

@HorseWithNoTimeforThis

In "our" culture, (though that's not the culture I'm living in right now, so I can't think of a lot of examples) it's been a bit harder to be gender non-conforming as there's little risk involved so most people are reasonably free to behave and dress as they wish.

There are some women like Hannah Gadsby and Abby McEnany who dress in a 'masculine' style.

There are some men like Grayson Perry and Ru Paul who dress in a 'feminine' style.

All four do so with mixed reception (from arseholes).

Isn't it, "queer" used to be an insult, a slur, against LGB people, so the LGB community started using "queer" as a non-insult between themselves, so it was "reclaimed" by the community in that sense. (I say this as a bi woman btw)

No idea what "queer" theory is mind you. Probably has to do with being bad at art and good at talking shite, and having brightly coloured hair.

The Q in lgbtabcdetc isn't to do with queer theory it's to do with identity and sexuality.

Pretty much, yeah. Still is an insult for some people.

I don't call myself queer because it doesn't fit me. It comes with all sorts of politics and aesthetics which just aren't me at all.

Ben is gender non-conforming and has used GNC in her youtube channel name
www.youtube.com/c/gnc-centric

There are a lot of people that have these lines of what you’re supposed to be as a queer person, which I always thought was crazy. That’s the point of queer — that it’s fluid and confusing and can be used as an identifier. So I was feeling not particularly queer enough, especially because I wasn’t out to my parents at that time. I’ve been in relationships with cis men, mostly, and I felt a little stigmatized — that I’m non-binary and pansexual, but I’m not a lesbian but I’m also not a girl. But I don’t feel like a bad queer anymore

This reminds me of Douglas Murray's take on Judith Butler et al

Prose this bad can only occur when the author is trying to hide something

What's with the deliberate, tortured lack of clarity?

@BovaryX that particular excerpt was talking about a lyric 'maybe in a year//I will not feel like a bad queer' - it's reflecting on their own experience and self doubt. I really like the interview but I adore Adult Mom!

I've read the thread and am no clearer about what Queer is.

As far as I understand:

Heterosexual= same sex attracted
Homosexual=opposite sex attracted
Bisexual= attracted to both sexes
Pansexual=attracted to both sexes and trans people

Queer= anyone who wants a label?

Genuinely not understanding. Why no clear, simple definition (or did I miss it?)?
Does Queerphobia exist? If it does then there must be a simple definition somewhere.

@TwitcherOfCurtains I see it as bi/gay/pan/ace when referring to sexuality and enby/trans/agender when referring to gender identity. Anything that isn't hetero or identifying with the gender you were assigned at birth (I know you don't like that phrase but I'm trying not to use c*s)

Ok, google says 'ace'= asexual, is that right?

'Enby'= isn't strictly masculine or feminine

'Non binary'= isn't strictly masculine or feminine.

Is there a difference between non binary and enby or just two names for the same things?

So, to be Queer you have to not fit gender stereotypes/roles and be not be heterosexual?

It reads like other posters were saying Queer can also be straight. Which is right?

I'm an idiot about this stuff so thank you for replying btw.

Enby = non-binary. It's a cute way of writing 'NB'.

Ace is asexual.
Enby and NB and non-binary are the same.

'Queer' is usually not straight, though a relationship of a pre-everything trans woman and a woman, through one lens is "heterosexual" but "queer" through another.

Enby = non-binary. It's a cute way of writing 'NB'.
Oh

Can a heterosexual (not including a trans partner) couple class themselves as Queer?

@twitcherofcurtains Good question... I think they could but one or both would need to be something else like gender non-conforming or maybe just plain vanilla polyamorous??

It's definitely one of those Alice in Wonderland terms though. I think there's even a movement to drop all the letters from LGBTQIA down to Q but it's not getting much traction because so many English speaking countries still see the word "queer" as an unforgiveable slur.

Can a heterosexual (not including a trans partner) couple class themselves as Queer?

Yes, and if you question their identity you are queerphobic bigot!

Thought Q was the alternative real news which we don't get to hear about on mainstream media

What's with the deliberate, tortured lack of clarity?

Some people are easily swayed by stuff that is deliberately obtuse. They think it must be incredibly profound and mystical if it's vague and difficult to comprehend. If they can't understand it and the other person is using big words and convoluted sentences, then it means this person must be very intelligent and saying something profound and worth listening to.

That seems to be the sort of fan base around Judith Butler etc.

I have to try hard to not roll my eyes around such types. Unfortunately, as a bisexual woman it's hard to find good ol' fashioned LGB(T) spaces. It's quite overrun with the queer types these days so quite difficult to avoid in certain social circles and places. The ones that love to lecture 'white' people on privilege and cultural appropriation while themselves being white and sipping on their 'chai' lattes, going to their yoga classes etc.

Queer is for straight people who want to be special

I have a friend who is a straight, married, stay at home mother who proudly insists she is a member of the queer community. She told a very butch lesbian at a local potluck "I love how inclusive our community is," (meaning the 'queer community.') My eyes, they rolled.

Phil in fairness, "identifying" as demisexual or asexual is a often a very safe way to turn down over-friendly people down on nights out (especially gay clubs). I know a few people who've done that. You're right in that it's not really a political sexuality though.

Ironically, I match the writing for demisexual very well. I identify as fussy.

If my understanding of Queer is correct it appears DH and I could legitimately use the label..
..which is a bit odd considering we're a hetrosexual, church going conservative couple.

I've fallen down a google rabbit hole and discovered there are identities called "Novigender" and "maverique" both of which seem to be defined by not having a definition.

It's all rather crazy to me.

Narcissism of small differences:
'In terms ofpostmodernity, Clive Hazell argues thatconsumer culturehas been seen as predicated on the narcissism of small differences to achieve a superficial sense of one's own uniqueness, an ersatz sense of otherness which is only a mask for an underlying uniformity andsameness.[6]The phenomenon has been portrayed by the British comedy groupMonty Pythonin their satirical 1979 filmLife of Brian[7]and by authorJoan Didionin an essay (part of her 1968 bookSlouching Towards Bethlehem) aboutMichael Laski, the founder of theCommunist Party USA (Marxist–Leninist).[8]'

It's all rather crazy to me.

I think you would like The Madness of Crowds. Douglas Murray is withering about this...

If my understanding of Queer is correct it appears DH and I could legitimately use the label....which is a bit odd considering we're a hetrosexual, church going conservative couple

Yes of course you can, it means anything you want it to. Or one of you could identity as the opposite sex and complain loudly that everyone assumes you are a straight couple and doesn’t see your specialness as the coolest type of lesbian / gay couple.

When woke people annoy me , I tell them that Im trans because I’m gender free or agender. It’s fun watching them themselves in knots trying to tell me why I’m not. Their explanation basically comes down to

“ You can’t be because you are middle aged and boring “.

Fuck me, how does anyone accomplish anything worthwhile in life while they fall over themselves to explain these labels?

Thanks again to those who've tried to explain but am still nine the wisest.

Apart from, the Q in LGBTQ++++ is different to Queer Theory?! Tempted to ask whasssat as well but I fear my head will implode with the mental gymnastics.

Besides, I have dinner to cook, shirts to iron and work to do ready for tomorrow.