Q - what is it exactly,

[WelshMoth]

Can someone please explain what the Q is in LGBTQ?

Thanks.

It isn't a better word.

So q =(b or q or nb) where nb is part of t.
But also “there's a lot of gatekeeping in the community, people saying you can't be gay unless you've done a certain thing” so q < lgbt?
I’m not sure I’ve got it.

My first formula was wrong. On rereading it’s q=(b or g or nb) + p where p is definitely pan, not the other thing that starts with p.

@OneEpisode it can refer to sexuality or gender identity - sexuality being anything that isn't hetero and genderqueer being anything that isn't identifying as how you were identified at birth
I saw Steph Knipe from Adult Mom describe it well - There are a lot of people that have these lines of what you’re supposed to be as a queer person, which I always thought was crazy. That’s the point of queer — that it’s fluid and confusing and can be used as an identifier. So I was feeling not particularly queer enough, especially because I wasn’t out to my parents at that time. I’ve been in relationships with cis men, mostly, and I felt a little stigmatized — that I’m non-binary and pansexual, but I’m not a lesbian but I’m also not a girl. But I don’t feel like a bad queer anymore.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.stereogum.com/1802600/band-to-watch-adult-mom-survival-stereogum-premiere/franchises/band-to-watch%3famp=1

I didn't mean to do the cross through on that post! Can't get the hang of formatting 😂

So it's about as useful as Stonewall's definition of trans. It could be applied to practically anyone.

Everyone I've met who describes themself as "queer" has been in a functionally hetero relationship, but deeply invested in the whole LGBTQ alphabet soup and desperate not to be seen as an onlooker.

One was a man dating a non-binary identifying woman and two are women married to men (no gender issues with either, both monogamous) who claim to be bisexual.

There used to be that term "bi-curious", didn't there? I think that describes the two women I'm talking about here. One of them I've known a long time and she's never been in a relationship with a woman, she's just theoretically open to the idea.

Queer = straight with an asymmetric hair cut and a shitty dye job and a boyfriend you have to call Kylie.

You see, this is the type of thing I'm talking about. Questioning whether people are 'gay enough'. You can be in a hetero passing relationship and bi, though people like to comment you've picked a side. I've only heard bicurious referring to someone wanting a gay experience like experimenting at uni, not someone's sexuality

Er, I'm bisexual, cat. That's why i tell people I'm bisexual. If i said i was Queer, people would suspect that meant straight with a daft haircut and an oscar in performative wokeness.

- There are a lot of people that have these lines of what you’re supposed to be as a queer person, which I always thought was crazy. That’s the point of queer — that it’s fluid and confusing and can be used as an identifier. So I was feeling not particularly queer enough, especially because I wasn’t out to my parents at that time. I’ve been in relationships with cis men, mostly, and I felt a little stigmatized — that I’m non-binary and pansexual, but I’m not a lesbian but I’m also not a girl. But I don’t feel like a bad queer anymore.

So glad.

Sorry @RuffleCrow, didn't mean to make a snap judgement on you, it just reminded me of a lot of dismissive comments I've heard. I think especially when people first start exploring their sexuality, queer can be a helpful label to them, it's not an exclusive term and they can grow and change within it. In the end I think it's someone's personal preference with what they feel fits them. Queer is a very broad label and I think that's helpful to some people

I heard on the radio that young people actually aren’t having much sex these days. Maybe queer means “don’t know yet”; in that porn images of sex are very distant to reality and real life hasn’t happened for them yet?

This came up on another thread so I googled to see what Stonewall said. Not that they own the word but because they have politicised it.

Anyway this is there definition:

Queer is a term used by those wanting to reject specific labels of romantic orientation, sexual orientation and/or gender identity. It can also be a way of rejecting the perceived norms of the LGBT community (racism, sizeism, ableism etc). Although some LGBT people view the word as a slur, it was reclaimed in the late 80s by the queer community who have embraced it.

Also worth listening to speech by Selina Todd at WPUK meeting in which she talks about how queer politics took over universities. Very important as it was this that started the back lash against Women's Studies etc., which lead to the concept of "gender studies". And it is all the students from this era of university education who are now in positions of power and influence, eg politics and media. (The editor of the Guardian has stated that queer politics influence all her decisions so presumably the Guardian is an example of queer politics in practice. )

@OneEpisode that could be a facet, but also I think people know (or at least can have an idea) about who they're attracted to without having sex. Personally, I was a very sexually charged teenager, but with no outlet. Found people attractive regardless of gender and felt uncomfortable calling myself bi - I didn't want people to think I wasn't bi enough and I felt it fitted with me. I don't announce it to anyone but it's how I describe myself to myself

Hi Cat i’m pretty old so I can’t remember. So do you think if you felt safer to say so, you’d say you were bi? But at the moment, queer seems safer to say?

Oft times when privileged white people want to identify into a struggle for civil rights they "reclaim" a pejorative term that has been used against the people who were discriminated against.
Most young people who identify as liberal are ignorant of history so they have no qualms about calling one another the N word or the Q word.
Older people who lived the struggle would not dream of insulting one another in such a cruel fashion.

I wouldn't use the N word myself because I'm white and don't think it's my place to say it, even if people have reclaimed it it's not for me to say. But in the same way I feel it's ok to describe myself as queer as that is part of me. I would never call anyone else that though, I think it's a very personal choice.
@OneEpisode I'm not sure I would, I feel queer defines me better than bi but maybe my perspective would be different if there was less biphobia though, I don't know if that would be different

@OneEpisode I never really came out to anyone as I never felt the need, then I got to the point with people that I was open about who I fancied so I didn't define myself with a label for other people, just trying to make sense of myself. I've always said my sexuality is I like who I like, doesn't really matter what they are

I do not understand how you can be non-conforming by conforming to something.

Suspect this is the time-old phenomenon of each new generation concluding that it has just invented sex, something its parents could never possibly have engaged in.

My mum (50s teen) still says 'queer' to mean a homosexual man, but the word has shifted.

I'm very suspicious about 'pan' - a teen I know says she has friends who are pan, which I think is the safe option, 'go away and leave me alone I'm whatever you think is ok', a 2020 teen safe space.

The problem is, it could so easily include paedophilia. It does mean 'everything'.

Sure I can @HorseWithNoTimeForThis !
Every culture has traditions and expectations of how males and females should present themselves.

Gender non conforming people either ignore those expectations and do their own thing or go all in with the opposite sexes' for that culture.

So, it would be different in Victorian Britain or modern India or ancient Ethiopia what that would look like, what behaviours it might include, what items of clothing it could involve, how risky it might be etc etc

How gender non-conforming does someone have to be to qualify as queer? DH made dinner yesterday, and a birthday cake for today. Is that GNC? He washed and tidied up as he went along if that helps?

Thank you, fiestar.

Every culture has traditions and expectations of how males and females should present themselves.

Would you be kind enough to give just a couple of examples of how, in our culture, men and women might present themselves in a way that would be regarded as unambiguously "gender non conforming"?

And is it just about presentation or could behaviour be a factor?

Thank you.

Queer or questioning, i.e. people who aren't sure. I personally hate the term queer as bullies called me that in school.

I can stomach the Q but what I really hate is the A, which comes from the recent trend of asexuals trying to lump themselves in with LGBT people. The use of LGBTQIA in certain contexts is inappropriate. No, LGBTQIA people are not being persecuted in Chechnya, no-one is killing asexuals. Trump is not going to institute any policies that affect asexuals. Asexual people were not targeted in the Holocaust. And so on.

And don't get me started on demisexuals. Ugh.