Stonewall training in school

[Bluebelliphant]

My daughters school has arranged some training for parents about LGBT issues. Apparently it is written by Stonewall. Does anyone know what this might be?

We shouldn’t be derailed by posters saying we are denying the existence of trans people [eyeroll] and making trans people feel unsafe [double eyeroll].

In school, if a child told us they felt unsafe because someone didn’t agree with their opinion about something, we would see that as an opportunity to help them build resilience.

And don't forget the strawmanning (recognising the existence of detransitioners means you think trans people don't exist etc etc etc). I sometimes wonder if they've invented a TRAbot. It's so tiresome.

It's so tiresome.

It really is. On the other hand, new people are coming to this issue, all the time. So although it's tedious having to repeat yourself, you are reaching fresh ears constantly.

True. And important to remember to stay polite and measured so the new lurkers don't see inexplicable kneejerk snarking. But Jesus they make it hard...

TRAbot Maybe Stonewall have been busier than we think!

NB Monitors - this is tongue in cheek, Stonewall aren’t holding auditions.

The stickers were a hostage to fortune. Critics of TT were quick to respond with "Do as I say, don't do as I do."

The "discredited" material seems to be a Pink News tautology, where PN quotes an earlier PN article based on complaints by two people that offer assertion and polemic but no evidence.

www.pinknews.co.uk/2019/10/07/someone-trolling-anti-trans-group-most-perfect-way/

www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/05/31/trans-activists-slam-deeply-transphobic-school-resources-crowdfunder/

Here's a screenshot from Stonewall's website page on secondary school and college teacher training - Creating a trans-inclusive setting

Those stats aren't clicky links, by the way - there's no reference to where they've come from.

Stonewall's page on supporting a young trans person who wishes to transition also says this:

Toilets and changing rooms
A trans young person may wish to use the toilets and changing rooms of their self-identified gender rather than of their assigned sex. Schools and colleges should make sure that a trans student is supported to do so and be aware that this is a legal requirement under the Equality Act.

Thanks for that quote below with the education legislation HandsOffMyRights . That's what parents need to focus on.
Stonewall is a lobby group with a lot of knowledge about LGBT+++ issues. They are not educationists, experts on child development, psychology, safeguarding.
They are trying to change society in the interests of their members. That's a great aim. But they're a lobby group - and lobby groups shouldn't teach children and influence school policy and practice in favour of their particular agenda.

Their website is also predominantly about trans/gender

The LGB only really get a mention when grouped as lgbt.

The glossary of terms for instance is all about trans and they re wrote homosexual as same gender attracted. They have literally forgotten all about the LGB and same sex attraction has been completely ignored

Anyone who thinks stone wall is qualified to train schools is mistaken they no longer work for the 3/4 of the target audience

*snowblight
You have posted a clipped picture asserting that Transgender Trend is 'deeply damaging.' The source is not shown. Can you clarify the source? A link to the website please. We would like to see the source of the assertion.

Schools and colleges should make sure that a trans student is supported to do so and be aware that this is a legal requirement under the Equality Act.

Ah yes, that’s the bit that I was referring to. So that’s not right, but Stonewall are saying that it is? I’m a bit surprised that a reputable organisation wouldn’t have their facts nailed down if they’re providing guidance to schools. I’m assuming that this has been challenged?

I’m reading the guidance that people have linked. A pupil who says that they are trans has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment, and that this means that the school has to refer to them by their chosen name and pronouns. Does this kick in as soon as the child tells the school? Can we not require some sort of medical referral (children can be quite flighty and faddish). What if the parents don’t want the school to do this?

Why haven’t the DfE provided any guidance? If there are competing groups issuing guidance with potentially dodgy legal advice it seems like a complete minefield.

a reputable organisation

Therein lies the error.

noble I’m in Scotland, but we have virtually identical guidance pushed onto schools by LGBT Youth Scotland.

Our experience was exactly that the morning our 14 year old daughter told her Year Head (who is also the head of the school’s LGBT club- long story, I’m on Twitter as @rodgmum if you want the full saga) that she identified as a boy, by that afternoon, he had formally implemented it across the school and told our unaware 17 year old. He did not tell us as parents. Once I found out, I met with him and I was told we had no say as parents. All on the back of the LGBTY guidance.

Our complaint was later upheld by the school Head, but there seemed to be a bit of rowing back at a meeting I had with school on Monday, so yes, some schools, at least do follow the guidance and parents aren’t necessarily told/it’s done without permission.

Thanks, rodgmum, I went to your twitter thread which had a link to the LGBTyouth Scotland guidance for schools and it says similar to Stonewall about toilets.

“There is no law in Scotland, or in the UK, which states that only people assigned male at birth can use men's toilets and changing rooms, or that only people assigned female can use women's toilets and changing rooms. Discrimination case law has established that transgender people who have started living in accordance with their gender identity must not be banned from using the facilities matching their gender identity.”

Discrimination case law means this has been challenged in court? This is different to Stonewall saying that it comes under the Equality Act.

Are LGBT youth Scotland also wrong? How on earth are schools meant to get to the bottom of this?

Further from the LGBT youth Scotland guidance, it seems that if a pupil tells a teacher that they’re trans, they have a right to privacy and there’s no need to tell their parents.

But if the teacher then tells the whole staff and school are expected to use new names and pronouns, then surely privacy is no longer a consideration and parents should be told.

It also says that names shouldn’t be officially changed without a letter from parents - rodgmum I’m honestly shocked that your school would tell everyone, including your son, but not tell you.

So the school admitted they were wrong to do this?

Yep. We made a formal complaint to the Head at the beginning of November and the Deputy Head phoned me and profusely apologised for what the Year Head had done.

We ere promised that the systems would be changed back to reflect her legal name, although this hasn’t happened yet and I have had to chase. I had a meeting on Monday with another member of the senior team and he seemed to be rowing back a bit on the promises made. He confirmed that she is not affirmed as a boy just now, but made it clear that they take their guidance from LGBT Youth Scotland and if the issue arose again, their advice would be considered as well as the rights of the child vs the “instruction” from us so I’m a bit wary. The Deputy Head was clear in her support- I’m just not convinced it has filtered down.

All of this is completely against the advice from the NHS. The Tavistock specifically not not recommend the social transition of children before they see them, so how schools get away with it when the parents want to take a more cautious approach, I have no idea!

On the discrimination case- possibly they are talking about the case in England where a TW was kicked out of a pub? I’d need to dig out the details, but my memory is that it was toilet related, but part of a bigger issue. The TW because at that time the EHRC had incorrect information on their website, which they have since quietly corrected.

*TW won

The EHRC had incorrect information on their website?!

What the bloody hell is going on here? Are Stonewall and LGBT Scotland going off the EHRC misinformation?

The EHRC had incorrect information on their website?!

Yes. And had to be dragged, kicking and screaming, to correctly represent the law.

David Isaac, the EHRC chair of commissioners, was chair of Stonewall from 2003 to 2012. Read into that what you will. I read gravy train and institutional and regulatory capture.

You have posted a clipped picture asserting that Transgender Trend is 'deeply damaging.' The source is not shown. Can you clarify the source? A link to the website please. We would like to see the source of the assertion.

It's Stonewall. I managed to find it after asking the same question (and not getting a response).

www.stonewall.org.uk/node/62946

OP - if you're about, I reiterate what I said previously on the thread. Your best course of action is to contact the headteacher at the school and request information how the school's safeguarding lead has assessed the proposed Stonewall materials for Working Together compliance and who has checked the safeguarding credentials of the presenters. It should be Level 2 accreditation.

Incidentally, regarding the 45% suicide attempt number: www.transgendertrend.com/stonewall-school-report-what-does-suicide-rate-mean/

David Isaac, the EHRC chair of commissioners, was chair of Stonewall from 2003 to 2012. Read into that what you will. I read gravy train and institutional and regulatory capture

Good grief Lang Is that true? It's just unbelievable and it shows a tenacious, deliberate, Octopus tentacles gripping every piece of the state apparatus. It's quite incredible

It's Stonewall. I managed to find it after asking the same question (and not getting a response)

Ha! Well OC there's a surprise. Not.