Story of Richard Hoskins detrasitioner in Mail on Sunday

[Needmoresleep]

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Powerful.

How many more stories will there be?

@OldCrone I’ll admit that sentence fair took my breath away! I mean he was obviously in unimaginable pain - but he left that decision to his ex wife to make alone? Jfc! I really hope someone was there for her

Nothing about this article shocks or surprises me.

The only thing I see is things that I identify with within my own family's experience and the total lack of proper gatekeeping and critical thought.

Questions that should have been addressed were ignored or tip toed around and the NHS fast tracking definitely played a role in it.

Everyone acted out of fear and trying to be nice rather than asking the bleeding obvious and challenging behaviour which was clearly not part of a healthy balanced lifestyle.

It's escapism.

My brother had a pattern of behaviour about escaping reality before being trans came up. He was indulged in this.

I always have felt uneasy about what happened precisely because underlying mental health issues and trauma were outright ignored and this presented as a quick fix.

I'm sure it's the case in a awful lot of people and the issue of post transition suicide is one that is conveniently swept under the carpet and ignored.

But sometimes as people who are strong enough to do the things they can't do. A sort of mother figure.

The saintly suffering mother who is worshipped to an unhealthy level or the overbearing suffocating mother who can't do enough for her children.

Take your pick.

I really hope someone was there for her

That was what I was thinking. His ex wife must have been just as distraught as him. Did he ask her if she wanted to be left to make the decision on her own, or just assume, because women exist to support men?

Exactly! I mean I don’t want to derail and it’s very possible that they had discussed it, but It comes across in the article as ‘ it was all so hard for me I had to walk away and leave her to decide alone because my feelings were more important’

I always have felt uneasy about what happened precisely because underlying mental health issues and trauma were outright ignored and this presented as a quick fix.

It does make you realise how much stigma is still attached to extremely poor mental health, doesn't it?

I feel sad for his loss (I'm not sure if I'd still be here in those circumstances) but there are a few points I'd make about this story:

1, He blames the NHS 'machine' for fast-tracking him through the system in six weeks. I've never met any trans person who has been through the system that quickly. What is apparently most soul-destroying for them is that after waiting a couple of years for their first appointment and thinking 'right, this is the start' they then find that it is weeks, if not months until their next one.

2, He hints at finding the right answers to give on Google which suggests a degree of maybe not being entirely straight with those who are there to help. I'm not sure if this is him saying that he did it or suggesting that others might. Are the medics expected to be mind-readers every time if someone is going in saying the right thing? It's a bit rich to blame the system if you go in aiming to engineer a certain outcome.

3, He was already self-medding which the NHS clearly does not recommend.

Apart from that, this is yet another example of a detransitioner or transition-regretter being given immediate access to certain sections of the nation press which has an agenda a mile wide as far as trans people go. The truth is that the vast majority of trans people are happy with their choices and the rates of detransitioning are tiny. The national press and others with an agenda will continue to push unverifiable claims by those who claim to know 'hundreds' of detransitioners and 'surveys' by groups that smell of being written up in ten minutes or so over a cup of coffee.

I'm astonished by all the fawning responses. Hundreds, thousands of people lose children and close family members to suicide and mental health issues each year (I know, I'm one of them) and yet how many go off and do this to themselves?

All I see is me, me, me, me, poor me. Ego the size of a house. Left the decision to switch off his son's life support machine to his wife. Not a word about the effect of his behaviour on his wives or child. Career made writing books about ritual and religious killings – he knows what sells. The whole thing reeks of narcissism, including only mentioning his current 'companion' in terms of her taking care of him and telling him how good he looks.

I'm glad he's written it, I hope he's happier now, but its main value is that it reinforces, as others have said, the suspicion that some men do just regard 'woman' as a look and women as existing to support and do the things they don't want to do. Can't tell you how disturbing I find not only the article but the 'oh, poor man' comments.

The PTSD element is so powerful; his early experience of abuse, family tragedy and the surely cumulative effects of the appalling cases he was routinely involved with.

I hope in future the mental health aspect that the piece so clearly highlights will soon be given the care it needs as a matter of course. The 'what lies beneath?' question must be the most important one to ask.

Not one word about his son's mother's agony, though. The men suffer, the women support and make the difficult decisions.

The question about whether he was right to go into the ladies' was a good ending though - self awareness of the effect of his behaviour on others beginning to dawn.

All I see is me, me, me, me, poor me. Ego the size of a house. Left the decision to switch off his son's life support machine to his wife. Not a word about the effect of his behaviour on his wives or child

Yes sorry this was my take on it tbh. He comes across as very selfish.

I am truly sorry for the trauma he suffered as I am sorry for what everyone else suffered too. But this luxury of time to even go have the surgery is something those left behind didnt have as they were picking up the slack back home.

Should the surgery have been performed? Hell no. I couldn't even get my tubes tied without being told I might change my mind. And that's reversible. This trans stuff is dangerously immune to normal procedures and is something that someone somewhere needs to work on because it will and has lead to stories like this.

The men suffer, the women support and make the difficult decisions.

Every individual story will have different circumstances but this is clearly a sweeping generalisation. Anyone working in mental health services involving men will tell you that one of the biggest pressures that many of them feel under is that they are the ones who are supposed to be the rocks, the ones to make the big decisions, the ones to not lose control and fall apart so they are there to support others who are grieving.

many really do seem to think we are just background scenery in their busy and important lives

And this is reinforced everywhere - every film, book, tv series, tv advert. We are simply here to 'facilitate the lives of others' as Jane Garvey said - but that side of womanhood - the caring, the support - is never the female role that is adopted by the stunning the brave, is it?

You seem to know a lot about the NHS procedure and mental health services, Snowbright. Are you a professional working in these areas?

You seem to know a lot about the NHS procedure and mental health services, Snowbright. Are you a professional working in these areas?

No

Fawning? No I recognise the shitting all over everyone around and the rush to affirm rather than challenge whats been said.

The reality is at the time he'd most likely not have listened as he was so sucked into the fantasy and wrapped up in himself.

That's the point. The nature of the beast has always been there should be more not less gatekeeping though and more alternative routes legitimised.

Oh: you seem to know the ways the NHS works for gender reassignment patients. Have you been through the process?

Comorbidity isn't taken seriously in the right way.

Oh: you seem to know the ways the NHS works for gender reassignment patients. Have you been through the process?

No... and given that most people on here have a reasonable knowledge of it, have you?

Having lost several close relatives, I empathise with his loss. It must have been heartbreaking to slowly watch his son die. It can, in my situation, also mess up your mental health.

I can see why he did what he did. He should have been given extensive counselling. However, it is a grave concern that NHS went straight for medical transition not assessment for mental health problems.

vulnerable people seem to be pushed down this path and I blame the likes of Stonewall and the lobby groups.

The PTSD element is so powerful; his early experience of abuse, family tragedy and the surely cumulative effects of the appalling cases he was routinely involved with.

How many people who transition have PTSD? Girls who have suffered abuse and men who have been in the military seem to be over-represented amongst transitioners.

The question about whether he was right to go into the ladies' was a good ending though - self awareness of the effect of his behaviour on others beginning to dawn.

He'd clearly never once considered it before. Possibly partly due to feminists campaigning about the GRA and raising awareness of women's rights that he now has.

He blames the NHS 'machine' for fast-tracking him through the system in six weeks. I've never met any trans person who has been through the system that quickly.

I was surprised at that as well. We're always hearing about how long the waiting lists are. Was it really any different 5 years ago?

Tangential, but I was also struck by the NHS funding of 80 hours electrolysis being available for transitioning men but not for women with hirsutism.

I'm wondering if any such woman has/would start a sex discrimination case against the NHS? Seems pretty clear-cut discrimination to me.

I agree.

So so sad. I can’t imagine the heartbreak of what he went through with his son.

I honestly don’t know how anyone could read that article and feel anything other than compassion. Maybe it will help others to realise that they are perhaps in a similar situation?