Why is the 21 year old woman posing as a boy not trans?

[2Rebecca]

The BBC news site has a story about a 21 year old woman "disguising herself" as a boy to have relationships with underage girls that involved sexual assaults. It sounds predatory and dysfunctional but I'm interested in the BBC's language here. Why isn't this woman a transman and therefore special and her biological sex irrelevant and the teenage girls complaining terrible transphobes?

if she says “I’m a boy” perhaps?
She did say that though.
Then presumably she stopped saying that or didn't consistently say that.
And also it's possible for people to lie, so going by what people say isn't foolproof.
Also, surely people who can't communicate verbally or by writing etc can identify as another gender? The saying or typing of it isn't where the identification happens, afaik.

@popehilarious I’m confused as To why this thread exists. She committed a crime. End of. Nothing to do with being trans or not. No need to intellectualise it

The reason the thread exists is to discuss the question posted in the OP.

A nonbinary person on my social media has also questioned the reporting of this (as in, wondering if the person is trans and therefore the reporting transphobic).

When a priest abuses a child people don't say "what has him being a priest got to do with it, it's a crime, that's all that matters, let's not intellectualize it or think it reflects on the priesthood." We consider it quite relevant.

There's a reason for that. There's been a pattern in churches (many churches, of many denominations) of allowing abuse to happen when priests do it, and covering it up when it is discovered and made public.

So the question is, does the trans community similarly circle the wagons around sex abusers in their midst, while claiming this exact kind of abuse is vanishingly rare and in no way reflects on their group as a whole?

I will leave the question as an exercise to the reader.

Not read the thread but from your OP..
YES!! SPOT ON.

Yes I did wonder something along those lines....

In none of the reporting is there any suggestion that she for instance acted as a boy at home with her mother.

There are similarities to a case a couple of years ago, where a woman tricked a friend into having what she thought was a heterosexual. And in that case the did say that not only did the convicted woman have difficulties with her sexuality, but experience gender dysphoria and had autism. But she too was convicted of a crime. www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jul/20/gayle-newland-jailed-for-tricking-female-friend-into-sex

Obviously women who struggle with accepting they are lesbian should not be allowed to obtain sex by deception.

The BBC report made no mention of her saying she was a woman at other times. All it said was that she dressed as a boy, claimed to the girls to be male and the girls she had relationships with and their parents all thought she was a boy.

Well under the stonewall umbrella, yes i think she is trans seeing as they have lumped together cross dressers and transsexuals in one group, she's also a pedophile.

For anyone who doesn’t understand why this is relevant to the transgender debate, can I ask you a question?

If this young person is trans and believes she is a boy, what would you advise as her lawyer?

Disclose her trans status and potentially send a young biological female with low IQ with a conviction for sex abuse to a male prison? After all, that is what Stonewall etc would expect if this was a male sex offender who identified as female?

Or don’t mention, or even cover up, her trans status and ensure she will be in a prison with others of the same biological sex?

What would you think would be best if you were her parent? Her friend? Would you consider covering up any evidence you had that she identified as a male to avoid the risk of her being sent to a male prison?

If you were a trans activist would you push for this person to identify as trans, so he can be his authentic self, and campaign for him to be sent, with his female biology, to a male prison as a sex offender?

Or would it be safer for a young trans man to hide their trans status, be sent to a female prison and be provided with mental health support to address their gender dysphoria? Even though that would be considered transphobic for a male bodied sex offender identifying as female?

Prrision services have already said they would not send/allow any female to go into the male estate, as they could not keep them safe. (Wondering why they say this and then send rapists into the female estate)

The young woman has obvious mental health issues. And she's clearly a lesbian, who is struggling with her sexuality..........hence dressing as a boy to attract girls. The girls responded to what they thought was a boy and were most likely flattered.

That's the thing with on-line 'relationships' you really never know who you are speaking to; and young people have not yet fully developed their 'creep' radar. When you are older you usually sense when an on-line persona is not all that they appear or present.

@Bearsinmotion it’s an irrelevant question tbh. The woman has a low IQ, is struggling to come to terms with her sexuality, would unlikely be allowed to transition even if she were trans and had sex with girls who are below the age of consent. Therefore she should be tried as a woman and should be sent to a female prison

The woman has a low IQ, is struggling to come to terms with her sexuality, would unlikely be allowed to transition even if she were trans and had sex with girls who are below the age of consent. Therefore she should be tried as a woman and should be sent to a female prison

Do you realise how transphobic that is?!

@Bearsinmotion no, I’m not aware how transphobic it is. Please enlighten me

Strongmummy (I genuinely love this name)... re "'unlikely be allowed to transition" I am not sure that there are 'barriers' in place to people transitioning these days. Certainly not socially, and also medically for people who self fund their own treatment via internet etc. I think the old checks are to some extent gone. I know if one uses the NHS there will be some barriers but I am still not sure exactly what they are.

But I agree she should be "...be tried as a woman and should be sent to a female prison".

Not allowing someone transition?! Sending her to a prison not aligned with her gender identity? Are you saying all trans women prisoners should be in male prisons? Or just those with low IQs and convicted for sexual assault?

@italiangreyhound - really, I wasn’t aware. Thank you.,

Ps. I hate the name and am unsure what I was thinking. It’s supposed to refer to the fact I lift weights....although I don’t even do that anymore 🤣

@Bearsinmotion - my understanding was that you needed to be fully assessed in order to transition and live full time as the other gender for a specific period. This woman has not done this. She’s just a very confused woman as the judge stared.

Re trans women in women’s prisons, in my view they’re women.

Because, as been pointed out to all of you that seem to get these things confused .. trans people are genuine and those that play the 'trans card' to get access to vulnerable victims are not. Simples. Hence 'disguised' as teen boy.. she was dressing up to abuse young girls. Not genuinely transitioning owing to body dysmorphia.

Re trans women in women’s prisons, in my view they’re women. Even those that sexually assault female prisoners? With their penis...

Because, as been pointed out to all of you that seem to get these things confused .. trans people are genuine and those that play the 'trans card' to get access to vulnerable victims are not. Simples. Not quite the Gotcha! you might think. Most posters on FWR have said exactly the same thing, for years. But have added the question... "How can you tell by looking at them?" Hence the need for discussion before introducing Self ID. Women and girls are entitled to ask how they will be protected against the latter...

Hence 'disguised' as teen boy..

Terrible thing that she did, just awful.

Course, no man would do that would they? I mean, people queue up here to tell us that men would never do that sort of thing, don't they? But women will do that. Not men. Ever.

Men need to have something like a "masculism movement" to campaign against this sort of thing.

(Sarcasm smiley)

@CuriousaboutSamphire I completely agree there is a huge chasm and difficulty in closing that around working out who's legit and who's not .. and I'll be honest it does unsettle me but I'm
Happy to acknowledge that my limited knowledge on the whole subject Makes me wholly unable to offer any practical solution

As italiangreyhound points out, “transition” today does not require being fully assessed or any period living as a woman. If a man commits a crime, including rape and sexual assault, as a man, is convicted and sent to a male prison, he can subsequently identify as a woman and request to be transferred to a female prison.

@HorseWithNoTimeForThis it's equally deplorable when either gender do this and anyone willing to imply that it's worse for either side has issues that need addressing by a professional.

It's more prevalent that men are the perpetrators of course, doesn't make it any less heinous when it's done by a woman .. the only movement any sensible person may be interested here would be one to protect both sexes from predators of both sexes because no one victim is more important than the other and standing for just one is tantamount to saying you don't care for the other