Why is the 21 year old woman posing as a boy not trans?

[2Rebecca]

The BBC news site has a story about a 21 year old woman "disguising herself" as a boy to have relationships with underage girls that involved sexual assaults. It sounds predatory and dysfunctional but I'm interested in the BBC's language here. Why isn't this woman a transman and therefore special and her biological sex irrelevant and the teenage girls complaining terrible transphobes?

It's a good demonstration of why it's important to be clear in crime reporting and in the recording of crimes by the Police.

Agreed.

She just pretended to be to lure girls.

By, in part presumably, cross-dressing? Which makes her trans under the Stonewall umbrella.

The trans lobby are happy enough to label me 'cis' according to their own terminology despite it being inaccurate and unnecessary, yet someone aren't so quick to apply their other definitions when it doesn't suit their narrative.

There's no advantage for her to declare that she's trans.

I doubt that she wants to be placed in a male prison.

Judging by the court picture she’s not presenting as a male, and so presumably at no time has said she is a trans man.

That too Zutt.

It seems that the only difference between her and anyone else claiming to be the opposite sex is that (it is thought) she does not believe herself to be the opposite sex, but then again there are plenty of transgender people who do not believe themselves to be the opposite sex.

She did say that she was a man/boy to the children she abused. By definition she was claiming a transgender status, just not revealing that she was trans (ie really female).

Some people pretend to be the opposite sex to do bad things. Doesn’t make them transgender.

Certainly it doesn't make you transsexual or mean you have gender dysphoria.

The line from Stonewall and all almost every other UK trans rights organisation is that it does make you transgender and self ID should have legal weight.

This is literally an example of what will happen if self iD happens. Because this is literally all an individual will need to do to access their prey. It won't be complicated, it won't cost anything, they could wake up one morning and decide to do it.

And you don't have to do anything to present as the opposite sex, just say you are and have the corresponding feelings/soul whatever.

But yes even in this thread the difference because it's a woman not a man is astounding.

There was a similar story a while back about a man posing as a woman. No one said it was transphobic to describe him as such, which I didn't really get. I'll see if I can find it.

and so presumably at no time has said she is a trans man

Pippa Bunce doesn't present as female most of the time. Alex Drummond doesn't present as female. Karen White did and described herself as such (MN mandates that I use female pronouns here).

I agree with you that all of these people are not genuinely transsexual and to claim that they are massively fuels transphobia.

Presumably you'd agree Fieldofgreycorn that if self ID gets in the existing problem of creepy weirdos using 'I identify as Trans' as cover for predatory behaviour will get much worse?

What someone upthread siad : more concerning that she isn't described as a pedophile.

They were underage girls. Even if she described herself as a "transman" she'd be committing a crime.

This does show that people will lie to take advantage, but it doesn't sound like she's claimed to be trans as part of her subterfuge, or that she really thought she was a boy in any way.

I think it's worth noting that, according to bbc article, police also thought she was a boy until they took her home.

Here: www.theguardian.com/global/2018/oct/05/predator-posed-as-woman-to-trick-other-men-into-sex

I did actually wonder at the reporting of this at the time. Presumably if the criminal had said "actually I identify as female" it would be an entirely different story, and the victims would be re educated?

There are plenty of people who would argue that claiming to be trans is not necessary. And that the onus is on other people to not make assumptions.

So claiming to be a boy when you're female doesn't make you trans, you have to claim to be a trans boy? This isn't what trans people say though...?

We have no idea if this person is trans man or trans woman. We only know what has been reported which is never the whole story.

Some people pretend to be the opposite sex to do bad things. Doesn’t make them transgender. That's the point! Or one of them! GC women here, and other places, have been shouting for years that it is NOT TRANS PEOPLE it IS PAEDOPHILES PRETENDING that we fear. And have been threatened, doxxed, beaten, sacked for doing so!

Self ID is a can of worms that has already been opened. We, GC women, general public, are often berated for wanting to discuss some of the problmes we can foresee and this case is just one of the now countless examples of the very behaviour Stonewall and its allies insist will never happen!

Well it is happening! Right now. And STILL some people are quibbling. The BALD TRUTH is that paedophiles, of either sex DO PRETEND in order to gain access to children.

The mooted changes to laws in the UK and across the world just make it easier for more of this to happen as safeguarding is INSTANTLY DISMANTLED once anyone can say they are the opposite sex and therefore must, in law, be treated as so!

Unusual story, and unusual reporting.
I hazard a guess she doesn't want to go to a male prison.
Could that be part of it? Why she isn't claiming to be trans, but men in similar positions do claim it?

Presumably if the criminal had said "actually I identify as female" it would be an entirely different story, and the victims would be re educated?

I thought that at first, but in fact the victims were underaged, so she was having sex with them illegally. Therefore she could be charged with sexual assault and assault by penetration - this would still be the case even if she claimed to be trans.

She is not a paedophile - the girls she had sex with were not pre-pubescent.

The story does, of course, illustrate perfectly that some people will pretend to be the opposite sex for nefarious reasons. Like deydodo I think she probably hasn't pulled the "I'm a transman" line because she doesn't want to go to a male prison.

Oh RoyalCorgi beat me to it.... she’s not a paedophile. If her sexual preference is older children then she’s a hebephile. She may just be an opportunist offender though so you can’t necessarily put a label on it.

She is not a paedophile - the girls she had sex with were not pre-pubescent. ?????

I had to go look up the legal definition... it seems that there is some dislocation between societal understanding of paedophile and the crime of child sex abuse.

But this woman committed sex offences against under age girls. Societal understanding is that is the crime a paedophile commits! The law may have different crime labels for under 16 and under 13 year olds, but does wider society?

She groomed them @Divebar. Hardly opportunist!