Why is the 21 year old woman posing as a boy not trans?

[2Rebecca]

The BBC news site has a story about a 21 year old woman "disguising herself" as a boy to have relationships with underage girls that involved sexual assaults. It sounds predatory and dysfunctional but I'm interested in the BBC's language here. Why isn't this woman a transman and therefore special and her biological sex irrelevant and the teenage girls complaining terrible transphobes?

Pip Bunce?

The worry is a self Id cert will mean you can pick and choose when.

Why not gender fluid then?

Except Pip/Phillipa Bunce, Tracyracer?

Trans-people, sex-offender or not, live their lives all day every day as their preferred gender, not just when it suits or when it's convenient.

Are you suggesting that Philip Bunce and all the other gender fluids are not trans? What about Alex Drummond?

Be careful traceyracer you’re running the risk of being considered transphobic with those views. Naughty.

The point is that the abuser told the girls that she was a boy. Whether she is actually transgender is irrelevant (and it is very difficult to know who does qualify). In the brave new world those girls will be taught that it is transphobic to be angry that the abused was not the sex that they claimed and, if they do suspect that the abused is not the sex they claim, they will have been taught that it is transphobic to reject someone purely on that basis. It is the Rohypnol thing, obfuscating reality and making it more difficult for the girls to see clearly what is happening to them. Language and the meaning of words is important.

As is being able to describe reality accurately and truthfully.

That's an interesting thought. Hypothetically, if people really came to accept the narrative that women can have penises, men vaginas, then a young woman would have no call to reject a "boy" like this one upon discovering he had breasts or a vagina. So long as the person said he was gender male, they would have no way to figure out that he was gender female without following him home or doing some research. And if they didn't, they would never know that this person had acted on totally false pretences. Arguably they would go on believing the individual was a man with a particular set of physical characteristics and never feel hard done by.

I suspect most women are not so eager to "identify" into men's prisons as men are to "identify" into women's.

Radio 4 news just described her as having "gender identity issues".

TBF I would not be shocked if she did have issues around gender, among other things. It's so unusual to see a situation like this one.

BBC was happy to call Karen White "she" but do not call Gemma Watts "he".

These two people both claim to be be the opposite sex in order to commit sexual offences. So why the different treatment?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-50985868

www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-leeds-45825838

Goosefoot I suppose that is the logical conclusion of children being taught, in school, from an early age, that girls can have penises, boys can have vaginas, that there is no physical way of defining what sex someone is. Plus the gaslighting from people like a certain cyclist that genitals are irrelevant.
I can't decide if all this will cause a rise in teenage pregnancy rates or a drop. It's all too confusing.

In situations such as these I don't think a charge of sexual assault conveys the seriousness of the crime.

Also, I would like to give a shout out for the doctor in Hampshire who raised the alarm. Good to know there are still a few who not only have a handle on biological reality but are also alert to safeguarding issues.

"A doctor in Hampshire first raised concerns to police in March 2018 after a young patient revealed she was in a relationship with an older boy."

Does she identify as a boy? I don’t believe so; ergo not trans

Does she identify as a boy?
The million-dollar question. How would you ascertain this, strongmummy?

I can't decide if all this will cause a rise in teenage pregnancy rates or a drop. It's all too confusing.

I know, right!

I think it will cause a great deal of mental illness, especially in girls, and that will have the side effect of fewer teenage pregnancies.

@popehilarious if she says “I’m a boy” perhaps? Even if she did, her behaviour is still vile and she abused these girls

A 21 year old sexually abused a 13 year old. 2 of the 4 victims had made multiple suicide attempts. This is nothing to do with transgender people or rights or what's being taught in schools. It's a harrowing sexual abuse case, nothing more.

@WhitlinglhopMonkey - you’ve hit the nail on the head

Just realised that autocorrect changed abuser to abused in my post. Hope it still made sense.

Of course, Whittling. You are absolutely right that that is all this case is about. However, I am nonetheless interested in the ramifications( both in relation to the facts and the reporting) beyond this case.

Perhaps you feel it is too soon to be looking at that.

I dont think this was anything to do with being trans.

An explanation given was that she had difficulty accepting her sexuality ie being lesbian, and resorted to subtefuge because to be heterosexual was acceptable.

But clearly in obtaining sex by subtefuge with young underage girls is a crime.

It was also put forward that her low IQ meant she functioned as a young person.

This doesn't make it any better for the young women deceived and harmed, but does raise issues as to why a young woman of 21, whatever her IQ, would not feel able to be openly lesbian.