Why is the 21 year old woman posing as a boy not trans?

[2Rebecca]

The BBC news site has a story about a 21 year old woman "disguising herself" as a boy to have relationships with underage girls that involved sexual assaults. It sounds predatory and dysfunctional but I'm interested in the BBC's language here. Why isn't this woman a transman and therefore special and her biological sex irrelevant and the teenage girls complaining terrible transphobes?

They transed Frida Kahlo? Huh???

Based on her looks no doubt... she must not have been 'fishy' enough!!!

Pshaw!

They transed Frida Kahlo?

There was a thread on it, but it's been deleted.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3796059-Frida-Kahlo-could-have-been-trans

I'm guessing I was busy and missed it!!! I'd have enjoyed that debate...

Dear oh dear!
One of the victims was 14? And thought she was in love. So over the age of 13. Which makes it fall into another category.

The problem is Hooves the OPs on here HATE it when women are commiting crimes like violence and sexual violence as they want to echo that only nasty men are commiting these crimes. Very rarely do any links get posted on the sexual crimes women commit ; quite a regular ocurrence with female techers in the US.

Mm! That's why OP posted about just such a crime. Rare as they are discussed... We can't talk about a lot of them if they don't exist!!

Of course now TWAW, and their crimes already being reported bas crimes committed by women, we will probably be discussing it much more in the future.

Very rarely do any links get posted on the sexual crimes women commit

That's because they are very rare. In the UK 98% of sexual crimes are committed by men. Data on the ONS website.

Starlink

That was my point earlier. It's like some people here can't contemplate that a woman could commit such a crime so are desperate to make her a transman rather than a woman

No-one is "desperate" to make her a transman, people who think we are are missing the point.
If this woman had been the male she claimed to be when engaged in sexual activities then the case wouldn't have come to court. The case only came to court because the young teenagers thought they were having consensual sexual activity/ heavy petting with a male and found out she was a female. It didn't come to court because of their young age, although that was a factor in the prosecution once the girls wanted to take her to court and found out she was an older female not a 16 year old male.
Transactivists are always telling us that biological sex doesn't matter and you should love the person not their genitals and it's transphobic to focus on genitals.
If the 21 year old woman had believed she really truly was a man trapped in a woman's body would it/ should it have made a difference? She would still have been a female getting young girls to be intimate with her by pretending to be something she wasn't.
The age of a person is important but so is their sex and lying about either is unacceptable, it doesn't become acceptable if you believe you are the opposite sex/ a different age.

I can't say for sure becauae I can't find the article, but being transgender isn't disguising oneself. That's not what being transgender is.

If this woman had been the male she claimed to be when engaged in sexual activities then the case wouldn't have come to court.

If the person having sex with these girls had been a 16-year-old boy, then nothing would have happened, but if it had been a 21-year-old man wouldn't it have still gone to court? Or would the girls not have reported it if it had just been a man lying about his age?

if it had been a 21-year-old man wouldn't it have still gone to court? Or would the girls not have reported it if it had just been a man lying about his age?

Nobody would have cared/the girls wouldn’t be believed/the girls would have been blamed

I love it when we have a real expert on a thread; someone who can tell us what a thing is not.

Great.

Very rarely do any links get posted on the sexual crimes women commit ; quite a regular ocurrence with female techers in the US.

That's probably because here in the UK it is very rare.
It's not the fact that a woman committed the crime it's the fact that given he stonewall party umbrella a female who dresses and calls themself man/boy/male even if it's just part time is a trans man.
So why not this woman?

but being transgender isn't disguising oneself. That's not what being transgender is.

What’s the difference between disguising oneself and cross-dressing? Because the latter is part of Stonewall’s definition. How do you define transgender rocketmen?

No-one is saying being transgender is disguising oneself, just that for the girls assaulted by this woman what practical difference would it have made if she wasn't disguising herself as a man but really truly believed she was a man and had been "born in the wrong body"? The girls would still have been assaulted by a female saying she was a male when she wasn't.
I don't believe Pippa Bunce magics in to a woman on the days that Pippa puts on a frock. To me that's putting on a disguise too. Men who sometimes cross dress don't believe they are women but count as trans too. It's all got confusing and silly.
Some people are just better at deluding themselves when they play "let's pretend" than others.

Very rarely do any links get posted on the sexual crimes women commit ; quite a regular ocurrence with female techers in the US.

Then start a thread rather than whatabouting on this one 🤷‍♀️

Hooves or anyone really, I’d still like to understand how you square the circle of ‘you can’t label a person as trans, they have to declare their ID’ to ‘its totally fine to retrospectively ID dead female hero’s as trans because clothes or something’
Cheers.

Yeah, no, female teachers regularly committing sex crimes is not a regular occurrence in the US. This is not a major thing, except on Law & Order SVU.

What IS a regular occurrence is that in the few instances it’s happened, it’s blown up all over the national media.

Last time I checked, Bureau of Justice statistics show nearly the same rate of male sex crime perpetrators as in the U.K.—96%

Some believe that 96% male perps is exactly equal to 4% female perps.

Yes of course 96≅ 4 like TW≅W

How many fingers am I holding up Winston.

2Rebecca helpful posts.

Very rarely do any links get posted on the sexual crimes women commit ; quite a regular ocurrence with female techers in the US.

I have posted here about sexual crimes commited by women.

In fact I posted only a couple of days ago about a predatory, sadistic psychotherapist and "ritual abuse expert" Vanessa Clark, who sexually assaulted her vulnerable clients.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/Christian-cult-leader-psychotherapist-63-told-clients-breastfeed-suckle-mummy-s-milk-jailed-series-bizarre-sexual-assaults-women.html

As my special area of interest is cults, human trafficking and the exploitation of children and vulnerable adults, I am fairly well informed about the complex issues relating to female perpetrators of sexual crimes.

I have been on the receiving end of multiple attempts by different females to sexually assault me and to recruit me into sex trafficking and into drug addiction.

It seems to me that there may need to be a new category of sexual offender / criminal whos MO includes deception with regard to identity.

The identity deception may be to do with sex/gender, it may be to do with ethnic / cultural / ancestral background, it may be to do with religion / spiritual heritage and it may be to do with profession.

In my experience there are significant numbers of very disturbed, fairly psychopathic / sociopathic grifters who use a "bait and switch" MO related to identity in order to sexually and / or financially exploit their victims.

I would argue that a central, defining element of these types of offenders is that they obtain perverse sadistic gratification from the abuse and exploitation of their victims. The controlling, sadistic aspects of the MO and the cold, ruthless arogance of the perpetrator is always evident

One example here
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/20-stone-Robert-Devereux-Macclesfield-Cheshire-jailed-tricking-women-Plenty-Fish.htm

here is another, this one is especially horrific
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/05/01/church-warden-relished-project-kill-pensioners-inherit-maids/

www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-news/ann-moore-martin-ben-field-17557875

I watched the channel 4 documentary about Ben Field and the detectives were understandably shocked and traumatised by working on the case. There were frequent comments about how they had never seen anything like it before.

Unfortunately Ben Field's MO is not unusual in my experience. Criminal cults use all of the methods Field used on a routine basis.

There is so much more to be said about this and I don't have the time to detail it all now.

I just wanted to invire readers to consider the possibility that there is a criminal and probably mental health category of a particular type of offender where deception related to identity is central to the MO

Oh and gaslighting. There is always gaslighting as part of the con, usually involving theatrical / counjouring / deceptive elements.

The Mail link in my above post doesn't work

apologies

here it is again

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6508255/20-stone-Robert-Devereux-Macclesfield-Cheshire-jailed-tricking-women-Plenty-Fish.html

That was my point earlier. It's like some people here can't contemplate that a woman could commit such a crime so are desperate to make her a transman rather than a woman

You know that the vast majority of people you are debating with here know that a trans man is actually a woman, right? However she identifies, this crime was committed by a woman. So claiming anyone here is “making” her a trans man because they don’t believe women are capable of sexual assault is utterly ridiculous.

Bearsinmotion very wise point.