Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

York theatre royal toilets

192 replies

pigsknickers · 02/01/2020 19:57

I visited today and was irritated to find that one of the two women's toilets is now unisex (and yes the men still have two to themselves). Here's the text of the email I've written them; I'm planning to c&p it to any venues I come across who've pulled this stunt from now on. Awaiting waffle bollocks response.

"I visited the theatre today with my mum and two small children, and I want to tell you how appalled we were to find you've designated one of the two female toilet facilities as unisex, while the men still have two single sex facilities. There are so many reasons why we found this to be a misjudged move on your part:

  1. Women need more, not fewer public toilets than men. We are often looking after small children or elderly female relatives in the toilets. We need more time and space to deal with menstruation (which we really don't want to do in a shared space with men). Many venues suffer from long queues to use the ladies' as it is. When I visited today, the toilets in question were full of women trying to toilet their children, with men adding to the overcrowding (while there was a men-only facility just next door). Yes, I could have used the women-only toilets upstairs, but with two small children in tow I had neither the time nor the energy to drag them up two flights of stairs.
  2. Men's toilets are dirty. Men tell us this all the time; many men take steps to ensure they won't have to use a cubicle while they're out, because men urinate on the seats and floor. This gets worse in venues where alcohol is served.
  3. Women need privacy away from men when performing intimate functions. I sometimes have very heavy periods, and do not want to wash blood off my hands while standing next to a man. I don't want a man to overhear me explain to my three year old what a sanitary towel is.
  4. Women in states of vulnerability are not safe in shared sex spaces. Your cubicles are not even floor-to-ceiling; you are making it easier for predatory males to intimidate, harass and attack women and girls.
  5. Women have fought long and hard for single-sex provision so that they have equal access to public life. Both the WHO and UNICEF emphasise the importance of single-sex toilets in protecting girls in developing countries from rape, and allowing them to participate in public life. Without adequate toilet provision, women and girls in this country too would have their safety and dignity compromised whenever they leave the house. I would be very interested to know what Equality Impact and Risk Assessments were carried out before this change was implemented.
  6. It is just not acceptable that men now have access to 2.5 of 4 toilet facilities, while women - who I presume make up at least 50% of your clientele (I would guess more based on today's audience) - only have access to 1.5 of them. I anticipate an explanation that this change was made to make better provision for transgender people, and while this may be a laudable aim, I invite you to consider why it was deemed appropriate to remove a significant proportion of your female customers' toilet provision. This sends a very clear message that you value your female customers less than any other demographic, and for this reason I will not be visiting the Theatre Royal in the foreseeable future."
OP posts:
Mumoftwoyoungkids · 24/01/2020 23:23

Am rather amazed to see this. I went the day before you and also sent an email and got a reply from Rachel. My letter wasn’t as good as yours but I’m now thinking that maybe needs a follow up reply after all.....

Off to rant.....

Rhubarbisevil · 24/01/2020 23:38

Great letter. And please give them hell for threatening to sack the love of my Panto life, David Leonard.

pigsknickers · 25/01/2020 04:42

Herewego thank you for your clarification about sex discrimination, I will keep that in mind.
It's good to know others have written to them too - I'm not expecting a complete about face but they've obviously got the wind up them a bit. I'm interested to see what response I'm going to get now it's gone past the PR people.

OP posts:
pigsknickers · 25/01/2020 04:53

Ooh I did a bold, get in!

OP posts:
MarieIVanArkleStinks · 25/01/2020 10:26

This pervasive nonsense is creeping in absolutely everywhere. What's seriously irritating is the hedging and flannelling that's usually sent as a response to anyone who objects.

My DH won't take DC5 into male toilets if I'm with them and can take him to the female ones. Even he sees them as disgusting.

Good on you for writing, OP. I'm reasonably local to York. I'm intending to do the same.

KatvonHostileExtremist · 25/01/2020 14:41

I'm originally from York too, I might set my mum on them. She'll rally the troops.

Mayomaynot · 25/01/2020 18:45

A review on Tripadvisor will inform lots of people too. Always good for women to know what's going on. I had lots of views of a similar review I posted about a different venue.

StealthPolarBear · 25/01/2020 19:03

Op this is brilliant

LemonGingerCakes · 25/01/2020 19:19

Haven’t RTFT as in a rich, but wanted to say thank you to @pigsknickers for saying what I wanted to say, but wasn’t able about the York Theatre Royal toilets.

LemonGingerCakes · 25/01/2020 19:19

In a rush, not rich

Daughterofmabel · 25/01/2020 19:33

Great letterpigsknickers
Id be interested to see how you get on.

Qcng · 25/01/2020 20:12

The science museum in London have done similar.
I was peeved as I go there a lot with my DC.

Thing is though, they do actually have floor-to-ceiling cubicles in their unisex, and I believe they changed both the men's and women's on one floor to unisex (no urinals), so there wouldn't be much leverage in a complaint.

I'm still peeved though! You have to share the sink area with mixed sex and there's just something annoying about that.
Plus, knowing a bloke has been into the cubicle and could have pissed all over the loo seat.

Its all just... so... Stupidly woke. No one wants it.

AutumnRose1 · 25/01/2020 20:20

“ I'm still peeved though! You have to share the sink area with mixed sex and there's just something annoying about that.”

They’ve done that on the ground floor of the Wellcome too.

Thelnebriati · 25/01/2020 20:37

In mixed sex toilets the cubicles are supposed to be self contained and that means the sinks should be inside the cubicle, as they are with disabled toilets.

AutumnRose1 · 25/01/2020 20:44

So the Wellcome toilets aren’t actually legal? I’m confused.

Thelnebriati · 25/01/2020 21:00

This link explains what a self contained toilet is. The legislation is actually explained using single occupancy disabled toilets as the example, because in all other situations (schools, the workplace, shopping centres etc) toilets are supposed to be single sex.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/441786/BR_PDF_AD_M2_2015.pdf

Thelnebriati · 25/01/2020 21:03

Basically the standards say that providers are supposed to offer X number of toilets and Y number of urinals per number of men, X number of toilets per number of women (including sanitary waste disposal bins), and Z number of accessible toilets per total number of potential users.

So an accessible/single occupancy (mixed sex) cubicle must contain a sink and a sanitary waste disposal bin.

AutumnRose1 · 25/01/2020 21:17

Sorry if I’m being thick, but I can’t see the answer to my question, but presumably all these places are doing this legally.

The Wellcome have separate facilities on other floors.

SarahTancredi · 25/01/2020 21:26

but presumably all these places are doing this legally.

More likely they are taking advice from what they believe to be reputable organisations like stonewall and assuming they have the legalities ironed out.

Either that or i don't honestly think that they would even consider toilets to have much of a legal basis beyond requiring them.

Thelnebriati · 25/01/2020 21:28

No they aren't doing this legally, they just haven't been challenged yet. Laws don't stop people doing things that are illegal, they lay out the boundaries, and if people are caught they can be challenged.

AutumnRose1 · 25/01/2020 21:35

Inebriati I’m just thinking, if there’s single sex provision on another floor, then it’s presumably okay?

My last two workplaces were breaking the law if it’s not okay to have mixed and separate options.

Qcng · 25/01/2020 21:43

Legally, mixed sex or unisex have to be individual cubicals with floor to ceiling doors and walls, a wash basin in the cubical. Like what you get on a plane or train, or disabled loo.

Anything else is against guidelines.

AutumnRose1 · 25/01/2020 21:47

So, to be clear for my tired brain, the whole communal sink thing is illegal? Guidelines and law aren’t the same thing but maybe there’s no law that deals with this?

Thelnebriati · 25/01/2020 22:09

The standards for toilets are the law. 'Standards' mean legal standards.
The two types are single sex or single occupancy.

If they are single occupancy they must be completely self contained.

'Mixed sex toilets' are just single occupancy toilets within a room instead of being off a corridor.

AutumnRose1 · 25/01/2020 22:18

I think I might write to the Mayor of London. All the organisations involved aren’t going to care so might be worth a try.