York theatre royal toilets

[pigsknickers]

I visited today and was irritated to find that one of the two women's toilets is now unisex (and yes the men still have two to themselves). Here's the text of the email I've written them; I'm planning to c&p it to any venues I come across who've pulled this stunt from now on. Awaiting waffle bollocks response.

"I visited the theatre today with my mum and two small children, and I want to tell you how appalled we were to find you've designated one of the two female toilet facilities as unisex, while the men still have two single sex facilities. There are so many reasons why we found this to be a misjudged move on your part:

1. Women need more, not fewer public toilets than men. We are often looking after small children or elderly female relatives in the toilets. We need more time and space to deal with menstruation (which we really don't want to do in a shared space with men). Many venues suffer from long queues to use the ladies' as it is. When I visited today, the toilets in question were full of women trying to toilet their children, with men adding to the overcrowding (while there was a men-only facility just next door). Yes, I could have used the women-only toilets upstairs, but with two small children in tow I had neither the time nor the energy to drag them up two flights of stairs.
2. Men's toilets are dirty. Men tell us this all the time; many men take steps to ensure they won't have to use a cubicle while they're out, because men urinate on the seats and floor. This gets worse in venues where alcohol is served.
3. Women need privacy away from men when performing intimate functions. I sometimes have very heavy periods, and do not want to wash blood off my hands while standing next to a man. I don't want a man to overhear me explain to my three year old what a sanitary towel is.
4. Women in states of vulnerability are not safe in shared sex spaces. Your cubicles are not even floor-to-ceiling; you are making it easier for predatory males to intimidate, harass and attack women and girls.
5. Women have fought long and hard for single-sex provision so that they have equal access to public life. Both the WHO and UNICEF emphasise the importance of single-sex toilets in protecting girls in developing countries from rape, and allowing them to participate in public life. Without adequate toilet provision, women and girls in this country too would have their safety and dignity compromised whenever they leave the house. I would be very interested to know what Equality Impact and Risk Assessments were carried out before this change was implemented.
6. It is just not acceptable that men now have access to 2.5 of 4 toilet facilities, while women - who I presume make up at least 50% of your clientele (I would guess more based on today's audience) - only have access to 1.5 of them. I anticipate an explanation that this change was made to make better provision for transgender people, and while this may be a laudable aim, I invite you to consider why it was deemed appropriate to remove a significant proportion of your female customers' toilet provision. This sends a very clear message that you value your female customers less than any other demographic, and for this reason I will not be visiting the Theatre Royal in the foreseeable future."

I'm from York and I think you're on a hiding to nothing, sadly. The city fell to the Woke Army a long time ago. A lot of public buildings, notably the university, now have these gender neutral toilets, always with a single sex option placed somewhere inconvenient and less accessible. The Theatre Royal ones are particularly appalling, though - they've simply taken what was a small, badly-laid-out women's toilet and slapped a different sticker on the door. There's been no effort at all to make the individual cubicles more private, you can clearly see people's feet under the doors (complete with knickers around ankles) while you're standing in the queue.

Interestingly, there is a production there in March called Less Than Human and part of the Twitter publicity says "What does it mean to be human? Are some lives worth more than others?" I think we all know the answer to that one, don't we?

Agree with Eoin. I had a long and completely pointless correspondence with the Old Vic on this point. They responded with the same old slogans about inclusivity, ignored all of my actual points and basically dug their heels in.

I conclude that

a) letter writing is over - people can’t cope with thought out written communication these days and although those of us of a certain generation focus on well drafted arguments it’s wasted because the people responding they don’t even notice the quality of an argument. It’s just sloganeering.

b) Once you’ve nailed your colours to the trans mast there’s no way back - at least in the short term. I suspect the Old Vic know they really fucked up but how can they stand down now? We need to help people find a way back somehow. Not quite sure what that looks like.

It sounds like these toilets do not conform with Health and Safety regulations. You can't have stalls with gaps underneath and above if the toilets are unisex. Each toilet needs to be in a fully-enclosed room. This is the way forward for your complaint, and if you don't get an acceptable response from the theatre, you need to involve the HSE.

What’s that quote from a suffragette about shouting the loudest? We need to do that. This stuff happened because no one was given a chance to object.

It’s funny, if not for MN, I’d be thinking that it was mostly a London problem. It doesn’t get reported anywhere really.

So i had a reply this morning:

Thank you for your email. I'm sorry that your visit was not a pleasant experience due to the toilet provision at the theatre. The decision was made to be inclusive to everyone in our community but although some people have welcomed the change, including fathers trying to toilet young children, it hasn't been been a popular decision with everyone. When the decision was made to offer a gender neutral facility, the team considered which were the best toilets for this purpose and the ground floor toilets were deemed the best option. as they are all cubicles although not with floor to ceiling doors as you have noted. While this has decreased the number of women only toilets downstairs, there are overall more toilets made available to women. especially at Dress Circle level where the number of female toilets is greater than the men only facilities.

For privacy and access we do have an accessible toilet on the ground floor which you are welcome to use for complete privacy as there is a sink as well as baby changing if needed. I realise it is more inconvenient to go upstairs to a female only facility but there is a lift which opens on this level from the ground floor to the toilet level. I have passed your comments on to the buildings and facilities team for consideration as they are responsible for the toilet provision front of house.

Thank you for taking the time to send us your feedback, I'd like to reassure you that all feedback is welcome and considered.

Best wishes

Rachel

Rachel Naylor
Sales & Audience Development Manager

I'm still composing a response in my head, but the bits that jumped out at me were -

• at least she's admitted that it hasn't been a universally popular change
• so they want to be "inclusive of everyone in our community" but it's fine for us to use the disabled toilet? WTAF?? Obviously there's quite a lot for me to work with there...
• it's wrong that dads aren't comfortable taking their children into the men's; why aren't they doing anything about that?
• I will restate the safety concerns as this wasn't addressed at all.

Going to get something written over the weekend, suggestions welcome (does anyone have a link to stats on sexual assaults in mixed sex loos? I think there was a thread on this a while back).

Re the disabled toilets, she might be saying that because it’s an option for your elderly mum? However, there’d be no need to use disabled toilets if they stuck with their original arrangement.

There’s some info here about the legality of it, if that’s any help

womansplaceuk.org/gender-neutral-toilets-dont-work-for-women-2/

'the team considered which were the best toilets for this purpose and the ground floor toilets were deemed the best option.'

This is the logic they are using everywhere. Women's toilets don't have urinals do are made mixed sex. Men's toilets do so are left for men.

They have done this at our tube station.

The result is always inevitably more provision for men including both mixed and single sex options.

Less provision for women even though we need more, and it's mixed sex.

It's shit is what it is.

Why don't they put some baby changing in the gents FFS.

Unless I’m missing something, they’ve changed the ground floor loos at the Wellcome Collection as well, which struck me as being the worst choice.

You need to emphasise that this toilet provision does not conform to government regulations, which state that mixed sex toilets must be in separate, lockable rooms, not stalls with gaps.

so are they saying they are decreasing the provision for disabled and baby changing by opening them up to anyone who wants er complete privacy?

I think gender neutral toilets are great - but not at the expense of anybody's single sex space.

Don’t most theatres rely to a large extent on grant funding? And might those grants be provided on the basis that the entity applying for them has confirmed compliance with things like the Equaliti Act, and has fulfilled access and diversity requirements?

In which case, is it worth pointing out to the grant provider that the applicant is actually discriminating against the disabled, against religious minorities, and women? And failing to meet premises requirements laid down by law?

This is their donations page:
www.yorktheatreroyal.co.uk/support-us/corporate-and-foundations/trust-and-foundations/

They aren't council owned any more but I think York Conservation Trust owns the building.

Ooh I’m really interested to read about this.

I’m from York but no longer live there. I went on New Year’s Day to the pantomime with my elderly mother and young son.

I was fuming about the toilets and was quite vocal in the enormous queue!

I think I will write to complain too.

An update: I sent the following reply a couple of weeks ago -

*Dear Rachel,
Thank you for your reply to my email of complaint about the removal of the main female toilets at York Theatre Royal.

I am somewhat taken aback by your suggestion that women who feel uncomfortable sharing toilet facilities with men, should use the disabled toilet instead. I assume an Equality Impact Assessment was also carried out before this surprising policy change was made, as this will no doubt have a significant impact on your disabled customers. I wonder what suggestions you will make to them when they find the accessible toilet in constant use by women who do not feel safe or comfortable sharing toilets with men. You say this change was made in order to "be inclusive of everyone in our community", and yet women and disabled people - who you presumably also count as valuable members of your community - are being demonstrably disadvantaged by these changes.

It is, in fact, unlawful for men and women to share toilet facilities where cubicles do not have full floor-to-ceiling partitions and doors. This is because, as I pointed out (a point to which you did not respond), women are at increased risk of harassment and assault in mixed-sex facilities. Toilet cubicles like yours provide opportunities for voyerism and upskirting, as well as being completely lacking in adequate privacy. The British Toilet Association and the Health and Safety Executive will be able to offer advice on what constitutes safe and legal toilet facilities.

If men are unable to toilet their children adequately in the men's toilets, this is sad and needs addressing - by improving the men's toilets. If transgender customers do not feel safe or comfortable using single sex toilet facilities, this needs addressing by creating more self-contained, entirely private cubicles, not by removing facilities from women, or by illegally inviting men into the women's toilets, thus putting women at risk. Furthermore, it is totally unacceptable to make disabled facilities available to anyone not happy with the current unsafe, undignified and illegal arrangements*

I've just had an email back referring me onto the head of operations who is apparently going to respond in full to the points I've raised. I'll let you know what he has to say ..

FFS why can I not do bold anymore??!

Excellent letter! Hope you get a proper reply. The new management has clearly lost the plot.

That's such a good letter. Well done.

Thanks for the update, OP, great letter.

Excellent letter. They have alot to address dont they...

Oh well done!!

Wow, an excellent letter.