Can men really grasp women’s reality re safety?

[Ritascornershop]

I have a 19 year old son who is very compassionate and left-wing (I mention that as he’s been indoctrinated in TWAW) but who can’t grasp the discomfort many women feel at men in women’s private spaces.

And recently a friend was telling me that a family member of his (who he has quite the blind spot over) broke up with his girlfriend. The gf had, before she met his family member, been sexually assaulted. She was naturally quite traumatized by the rape but trying to heal and met this guy and got in a relationship with him. The way my friend tells it. his family member broke up with her after a few months (during an argument) & family member “got so uoset” he punched a hole in the wall and broke a chair. She called the police and called friends. My friend seemed to feel she over-reacted! I think any woman would be frightened and that a woman who’d been sexually assaulted would be particularly terrified.

It does not seem a tricky concept to me, but both these men seem to not be able to wrap their heads around how frightening it can be to be vulnerable around larger, stronger, angry males. Is this something most men don’t get or are these two not trying very hard?

*Instilling self confidence in girls and women from an early age would help greatly if this is a wider issue8

Yes, yes, yes...but we all exist in a certain wider context.......no matter how confident the girl, she will still encounter the prejudices, threats and so on......that are down to her femaleness.........

That you are even questioning that this is such a widespread set of issues...makes me wonder how narrow a circle of life you inhabit?

Always amazes me how much un-sisterliness there is about, even amongst women who claim to be feminists......You'll be glad of sisterhood, one day, when you need it yourself.

It's obviously not helpful to anyone to view men just as potential rapists

You have a tendency to go only for the low hanging fruit - in your defence of aggressive or entitled masculine behaviour. Many of us who post here are married you know, and have sons ourselves.

Men can’t grasp the reality of women’s safety situation because the reality is too different. Men are in much more danger of violent crime than women. They are far more likely to be assaulted or murdered than women are.

For us women to sit here and say men do not know fear and don’t have to be careful is being oblivious to the real dangers they do in fact face.

To say our fear is especially bad or so much worse than men’s fear is to paint women as the weaker sex according to the old damsel in distress gender stereotype. I don’t buy it.

Everyone feels fear. Neither sex has a monopoly on fear and women are not biologically programmed to be especially vulnerable to fear. If you think women are, you’re buying into gender stereotypes.

Beautiful

'men' don't need to manage their behaviour better. That's mysandry to claim that. You're talking about a small minority of badly behaved men who rape women. The majority of men are capable of behaving perfectly well and it's not evident that men, any more than women, need to regulate their behaviour.
Women will always be attracted to strong ,competent, masculine, dominant men. As long as they don't act inappropriately then I find they behave as expected.

Charlie “ It's obviously not helpful to anyone to view men just as potential rapists.”

Where did the word “just” come from?

Anyway, I find it very helpful to view them that way. I’m sure a lot of women find it helpful.

“ It would be terrible if men saw woman as only potential to falsely accused them. While there's always a small chance the likelihood of it happening is absolutely minute.”

Sure. So let’s imagine for a minute that men and avoid each other because of all this. What’s the problem? A mass reduction in population? I call that a result!

You've got the wrong person.....I am simply an observer of your interaction with another poster. You could have worded your response in less of an inflammatory way

Apologies it was Hors who posted the sanctimonious "I. Believe. Women"
I see there is no explanation from her (or comment from you) for her "inflammatory" post which had no purpose other than to insinuate I don't believe what was being said.

Is it really totally alien?

Yes. It is totally alien to my life experience. Do you have a difficulty believing what women say?

Can you not recognise anything at all in what she said?

Your question makes no sense - recognise what? That that is her experience? Of course I recognise that- it doesn't make it mine.

X post Charlie

It’s misandrist to say men need to manage their behaviour but it’s not a problem for you to say it about women?

I don’t have a problem with adults talking responsibility for their behaviour, so they should.

My DH is very sensitive and considerate but it really seemed to hit home for him when he was out with me and a few of my female friends and we were reminiscing on secondary school PE lessons. Where the boys were separated off and the girls had self defence lessons that focused around getting free if someone grabbed your arm or around your neck from behind.

We were talking about what our mums had taught us, to always have your phone out, to carry keys in your hand, to look purposeful, be aware of your surroundings.

We were talking about when we had had to use those lessons in bars to get away from grabby strangers, or when walking back to the car park late at night. About times when we'd been followed by cat calling men on dark streets and had dibbed into a taxi office or started talking to a friendly looking couple on the street so we weren't alone anymore.

Hearing it from a group of women, all casually discussing their individual experiences made him realise how normal it was for us to have to think about.

I think many do, and especially as they grow older (frailer?) and/or when they have daughters.

I regret that I don't think I got it in my teens/twenties.

Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them.

But, you know, it's anecdotal.

Justhadathought

There's nothing cwrong with aggressive or masculine behaviour, so long as its not directed at other people. Although I'm not sure why you'd put the label 'masculine' in there. There's never anything wrong being masculine.

I remember my ex used to go cycling at night. There was an occasion where he left his bike briefly at the side of the road and a van stopped and 2 men got out to steal it. He quickly confronted them and they drove off.
I pointed out that if that were me I'd have hidden and let them take it.

He was genuinely baffled. He pointed out that the 2 men could have beaten him up. But even 2 against one it wasn't the same level of threat as I would perceive. I'm not afraid I will get beaten up. I'm afraid I could be abducted, chucked in the back of the van, raped, murdered.

Yes, men do get beaten by other men, but it's not the same.

Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them

Yes, and before accusations of misandry are thrown, that was a quote from a MAN who is a world expert on preventing and recognising early signs of violence and acts as a security consultant to various governments.

If the people stealing the bike were 2 women I would definitely have confronted them, for context.

Men are more frequently the victims of violent crime because they are more likely to involve themselves criminal activities and associate with other violent men. Men are absolutely not more often the victims of violent assault by someone whilst minding their own business and being lawful.

That is why that accurate statistic has never resulted in men becoming more vigilant about their safety. They know that statistically, they’re only more of a target if they choose to make one of themselves. Since most do not, most go merrily on their way, and nothing ever happens.

My friend recently split up with his wife, they had a mutually violent relationship , one would start a fight the other would retaliate. He is very woe is me and in victim mode saying how unfair the system is against men. I don't think it has occured to him that he has an unfair advantage due to sheer physical strength alone and could easily overpower her if he chose. Which doesn't make it a level playing field at all

Always amazes me how much un-sisterliness there is about, even amongst women who claim to be feminists......You'll be glad of sisterhood, one day, when you need it yourself.

This.

Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them

This quote is so perverse. It takes something no one could be afraid of and does a false comparison to a very real and dangerous fear.

I think we all know women are statistically less dangerous than men.
But men’s #1 fear isn’t women laughing at them. Men are also afraid that men will kill them. And men are more likely than women to be killed by other men too.

It would be like saying these two statements:
Women are afraid children will laugh at them. Children are afraid women will kill them.

Women are just as dangerous to children as men. It’s about a 50/50 split for men or women abusing children to death. But women’s #1 fear isn’t children laughing at them. No, it’s men killing them.

I hate that quote. It’s propaganda at its finest, the comparison of two incomparable truths.

Men are more frequently the victims of violent crime because they are more likely to involve themselves criminal activities and associate with other violent men. Men are absolutely not more often the victims of violent assault by someone whilst minding their own business and being lawful.

Exactly.

Yes, without a doubt.

My 11yo son was watching a drama on tv recently that included a scene where a man was yelling at and threatening his wife.

Out of the blue Ds said ”I hate the way some men think they can do that”. If he can understand at 11, it is not beyond most men.

Men are more frequently the victims of violent crime because they are more likely to involve themselves criminal activities and associate with other violent men

Bullshit victim blaming. You have no idea about deprived gang run areas where boys are given no choice, join a gang or die.

Just had a thought
The transgender thing works both ways.

All the things you've listed are subjective and not societal. To say that women have been oppressed is a grave misrepresentation.

Bullshit victim blaming. You have no idea about deprived gang run areas where boys are given no choice, join a gang or die

Its all anecdotal.

What a disingenuous take.

Men are not afraid women will kill them, only that we’ll laugh. MEN consider women’s laughter to be violence, and to deserve a violent reaction. The quote has nothing to do with male on male violence.

Men are afraid other men will laugh AND kill them. But that’s not what the quote is addressing. It is addressing male violence against women. Male intramural violence is an entirely separate subject.

The quote is brilliant and perfectly sums up the false equivalence that exists the male mind.