Can men really grasp women’s reality re safety?

[Ritascornershop]

I have a 19 year old son who is very compassionate and left-wing (I mention that as he’s been indoctrinated in TWAW) but who can’t grasp the discomfort many women feel at men in women’s private spaces.

And recently a friend was telling me that a family member of his (who he has quite the blind spot over) broke up with his girlfriend. The gf had, before she met his family member, been sexually assaulted. She was naturally quite traumatized by the rape but trying to heal and met this guy and got in a relationship with him. The way my friend tells it. his family member broke up with her after a few months (during an argument) & family member “got so uoset” he punched a hole in the wall and broke a chair. She called the police and called friends. My friend seemed to feel she over-reacted! I think any woman would be frightened and that a woman who’d been sexually assaulted would be particularly terrified.

It does not seem a tricky concept to me, but both these men seem to not be able to wrap their heads around how frightening it can be to be vulnerable around larger, stronger, angry males. Is this something most men don’t get or are these two not trying very hard?

Men are absolutely not more often the victims of violent assault by someone whilst minding their own business and being lawful.

Yes they are. Just looking at recent U.K. news stories there have been several men stabbed minding their own business. The lawyer outside Sainsbury’s comes to mind. Stabbed to death with a screw driver for no reason.

You’re just victim blaming.

You’re just victim blaming

You literally just told me that anecdotal evidence didnt count. So why does it count for your argument? what a strange double standard.

The quote is brilliant and perfectly sums up the false equivalence that exists the male mind.

I disagree. It’s propaganda. Designed to create a false equivalence in the minds of the gullible. Men do not view laughter as violence. That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve read all day on here.

Plan okay, let’s rearrange

“Men are afraid men will kill them. Women are afraid men will kill them”.

Better?

Ok beautiful, where is your evidence that male victims of violence are criminals who associate with violent men and so are asking to be assaulted/murdered for failure to be lawful and mind their own business?

AutumnRose...
Yes that is better.

One thing is for certain, I don't think that men in general fear that women are going to physically harm them. Even a man walking past a group of loud drunk females, behaving obnoxiously and inappropriately, is more likely to feel irritated by them than afraid of them.

Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them

Yes, and before accusations of misandry are thrown, that was a quote from a MAN

Is it? I've seen it attributed on here to Germaine Greer and Margaret Atwood.

I never made that statement, and I never once said anyone was "asking" to be assaulted or murdered. I am simply making the point that you dismissed mine because you said it was "anecdotal". Yet the only evidence you have provided for your point is also anecdotal.
Therefore, going by your own measuring stick, your argument doesnt stand, does it?

Is it? I've seen it attributed on here to Germaine Greer and Margaret Atwood

I have no idea who originally said it, but I only became aware of it as it was quoted over and over by Gavin De Becker in his book on preventing violence.

I think it's at least clear that all of this is the projection of fear and not reality. There may be a perceived threat that a woman walking home may be raped. Yes it night happen. But it's a fear, a bit like getting in a lift and having the fear the cable will snap.

The potential is there but it isn't grounded in any sort of reality.

If nothing else this thread disproves the bullshit claim that this place is a so called "echo-chamber".

Men don't have the absolute certainty that any other man in the street will kill them though. They assume that they will have at least a fighting chance. Even if a man is not particularly strong, a stranger won't know that, so in a lot of circumstances a confrontation can be bluffed out of.

Women know for certain that most men can overpower them easily. And they know that all the men know that too.

And if 11 year olds are saying they don't like the way men treat women they're either seeing bad behaviour at home or listening to the type of nonsense propaganda that teaches children they are produce from a tyrannical patriarchy.

Plan great.

I do use the original quote sometimes but will stick with my amended one from now.

No, most violence is perpetrated by men against men. Men are the vast majority of victims of violence

Well the key point there is that most violence is perpetrated by men.

The crux of this discussion though is as much about the fear of attack as it is the reality of being attacked. Whilst it might be argued that an actual attack is infinitely more damaging than fear, that is too simplistic. Fear is emotionally draining, fear can be debilitating, fear feeds on itself and whilst an actual attack may only happen once in a lifetime, or never at all, fear can manifest itself as frequently as numerous times a day. For some women it can be incessant if the cause of their fear is their partner, a member of their household, a work colleague, a neighbour or someone else they simply cannot avoid.
I struggle to understand people who can't empathise with those who feel fear. Haven't we all been their at some point in our lives? Surely we all know how sickening it feels even if we're fortunate to be less prone to it than others? It's not a feeling you ever forget, at least not in my experience.

As a woman, I know that almost any able bodied male between the age of about 15 and 60 could probably strangle me with his bare hands if he so chose to. (And then he could maybe even get away with manslaughter instead of murder because he could say it was a 'moment of madness' but that's another discussion altogether.)

It is incredibly unlikely to happen, thankfully, but it is a fairly sobering thought. My husband is Mr Average, not particularly big, not particularly small, but I think there would have to be an exceptional difference in strength and size before someone could strangle him with their bare hands.

Women have a defence mechanism in that they can prevent anything from penetrating them if there's a strong will to do so

What have I just read? Are you arguing that rape doesn't actually exist? Because that's what it sounds like.

@Charlienotman You’re literally blaming women for being raped.

@Charlienotman don't be ridiculous your DH will be trying not to hurt you. It isn't an equivalent situation.

Would your DH head-butt you in the face to break your nose and incapacitate you? Would he force a broken bottle into your vagina if he couldn't penetrate with his penis? I suspect not. But in a real life attack these sort of things happen.

Women have a defence mechanism in that they can prevent anything from penetrating them if there's a strong will to do so.

Umm. You twat.

I don't share the fear but I was raped by someone who climbed through my bedroom window when I was fast asleep in the middle of the night. Plus countless other 'lucky escapes'.

If I were going to be afraid of all men in risky situations, then I'd never go anywhere or do anything. I know you are only raped because you encounter a rapist.

I'm aware of men around me and I carry my keys between my fingers.

I was explaining it to a new guy I am seeing and he was shocked when I said I'd felt apprehension at going to his house for the first time.

But then, a few days later, I was grabbed by a stranger a the shop at the end of his road. I got back to his shaking and in tears and I think he got it then.

Women have a defence mechanism in that they can prevent anything from penetrating them if there's a strong will to do so

What utter garbage and you've really outed yourself as a rape apologist here. I'm 5'10" and go to the gym regularly (lift weights etc)
My H never goes to the gym although he has a very physical job. There no way I could over power him even if I desperately wanted to. He is physically stronger than me. I can't even win in an arm wrestle so the idea people can prevent rape if only they really want to is an appalling and revolting attitude. Urgh.

I think people like the 19 year old who doesn't get it need to learn how to listen, really listen to others talking about their lived experiences.

I don't "get it" about that passage for a reason - I dont feel the need to keep moving- but I'm not the author, I'm a natal female, white, living in a relatively safe country and safe part of the country at that, and I'm not uncommon, there are plenty of people of my skin colour and sex around. If I were to try to go for a walk by myself in one of the Arabian countries where women don't go out anywhere without men, where a blonde, blue eyed white woman by herself would stick out like a sore thumb, I would probably have a much keener sense of understanding of it. Doesnt mean I can't recognise that it is the lived experience of somebody else.