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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Surrogacy Resource thread : please post your links here

254 replies

FannyCann · 01/01/2020 11:25

A Happy New Year to all.

I have been thinking about how I should concentrate my energies in the New Year - women are fighting many battles on so many fronts - against porn, prostitution, domestic abuse, the wonderful We Can’t Consent to this campaign, abortion rights, to maintain our spaces, our language, our sports and so much more that I haven’t mentioned.
For myself, I have been asked to join a particular campaign against surrogacy and I have decided that is where I will be devoting most of my time whilst still supporting all the other important causes in spirit at least.

The surrogacy market is a global business currently thought to be worth about $21billion with growth expected to reach about $41billion by 2026 according to India based market research firm Data Bridge. Women’s reproductive “services” are big business globally.

The Law Commission Consultation on new surrogacy law in the UK closed on 11 October 2019.
Many posters on FWR did great work researching, discussing and exploring the implications, educating and raising awareness, encouraging people to respond to the consultation so that responses weren’t simply confined to cheers of approval from “stakeholders” but real concerns and educated critique were raised.

Many of us may be wondering what happens next?

According to the Consultation paper what happens next is this: “After reviewing all responses, we will decide on our final recommendations for law reform, which we will publish in a report, accompanied by a draft bill (legislation) in 2021.”

The consultation, raising awareness and sharing the knowledge was very much the first battle. There is much to be done to follow up to prevent these harmful recommendations becoming law in the UK and to keep that global market out of the UK.

I am not able to give details but I wanted to let people know that there is work ongoing behind the scenes and small positive signs that the Law Commission are belatedly reaching out to some women’s groups who raised concerns.

Meanwhile I believe now is the time to prepare: we have a new parliament with many new MP’s who are no doubt completely unaware, now is the time to start lobbying MP’s and the government in advance if that draft legislation. I plan to hold my nose and meet with my MP, who is a staunch Catholic and who, for all his faults, I expect to take a dim view of the proposals. I will also be sending letters to key people in the government and department of health.

Since I first heard about the Consultation and proposed changes to the law just over a year ago, I have spent many hours reading, articles, legal cases, research papers, listening to podcasts, watching documentaries, reading and contributing to threads here, where so many other contributors share their knowledge and post informative links.

So I thought it might be helpful to have a resource thread, that we can refer to from time to time when looking for articles, research papers and other sources of information, links to FOIs, trying to find that thread where we saw interesting posts and so on.

I will kick off with some links to the consultation and related threads.

Please join in and add anything of interest you come across.

*The Consultation
*
Short summary

https://s3-eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/lawcom-prod-storage-11jsxou24uy7q/uploads/2019/06/Surrogacy-summary.pdf

The Full Consultation Document

https://s3-eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/lawcom-prod-storage-11jsxou24uy7q/uploads/2019/06/Surrogacy-consultation-paper.pdf

Obviously it is too late to respond now as the Consultation is closed, but for reference here is the recommended response to the summary from Nordic Model Now, which many of us used as a template or a guide to help us formulate our own responses.

https://nordicmodelnow.files.wordpress.com/2019/09/surrogacy-consultation-responses-pdf-2.pdff_

Several women’s organisations responded to the consultation with public letters:

Nordic Model Now Open letter:

https://nordicmodelnow.org/2019/10/11/open-letter-to-the-uk-and-scottish-law-commissioners-about-the-surrogacy-consultation/

WPUK submission to Law Commission consultation on surrogacy reform – Woman's Place UK

https://womansplaceuk.org/2019/10/08/wpuk-submission-to-law-commission-consultation-on-surrogacy-reform/

EVAW (End Violence Against Women) response:

https://www.endviolenceagainstwomen.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/FINAL-Letter-on-Surrogacy-.pdf

NIA response:

http://www.niaendingviolence.org.uk/perch/resources/surrogacy-consultation-response-october-2019.pdf

*Links to some of the related threads on FWR:
*
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womensrights/3606313-The-Rumplestiltskin-Laww__
_

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womenss_rights/3613356-All-male-Law-Commission-discussing-surrogacy

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womensrights/3651968-The-illegitimacy-of-the-Rumplestiltskin-Surrogacy-consultationn__

_
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womenss_rights/3706683-SURROGACY-CONSULTATION-ENDS-ON-FRIDAY-11-OCTOBER-PLEASE-SUBMIT-A-RESPONSE-Edited-by-MNHQ-at-OPs-request

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womensrights/3649812-building-families-through-surrogacy-a-new-law-consultationn__

_
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womenss_rights/3698520-Did-everyone-know-that-MN-now-has-a-surrogacy-board

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/amiibeingunreasonable/3169070-To-think-theres-a-valid-discussion-to-be-had-about-the-ethics-of-surrogacyy_

_
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womenss_rights/3708724-Famous-men-and-surrogacy

OP posts:
Thread gallery
32
FannyCann · 12/07/2020 21:15

Excellent article.

dissidentvoice.org/2020/07/why-is-surrogacy-illegal-in-most-of-the-world/

OP posts:
FannyCann · 12/07/2020 21:31

Dogged FOI investigating by another poster, the Law Commission have made available a strategy document. This lists Surrogacy UK as a "key influencer". Surrogacy UK in conjunction with Kent university produced a document "Further evidence for reform, second report of the surrogacy UK working group on surrogacy law reform. December 2018"
In this document they state the goal that "Public funding should be made available for surrogacy related fertility treatment in the UK and to lay UK surrogate expenses".

That's right, they want surrogacy fully paid for by the NHS.

This isn't a direct link, as it's a pdf. You need to copy and paste into your browser.

surrogacyuk.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Surrogacy-in-the-UK-2nd-Report-20181230.pdf

Surrogacy Resource thread : please post your links here
Surrogacy Resource thread : please post your links here
Surrogacy Resource thread : please post your links here
OP posts:
FannyCann · 12/07/2020 21:31

Dogged FOI investigating by another poster, the Law Commission have made available a strategy document. This lists Surrogacy UK as a "key influencer". Surrogacy UK in conjunction with Kent university produced a document "Further evidence for reform, second report of the surrogacy UK working group on surrogacy law reform. December 2018"
In this document they state the goal that "Public funding should be made available for surrogacy related fertility treatment in the UK and to lay UK surrogate expenses".

That's right, they want surrogacy fully paid for by the NHS.

This isn't a direct link, as it's a pdf. You need to copy and paste into your browser.

surrogacyuk.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Surrogacy-in-the-UK-2nd-Report-20181230.pdf

Surrogacy Resource thread : please post your links here
Surrogacy Resource thread : please post your links here
Surrogacy Resource thread : please post your links here
OP posts:
FannyCann · 25/07/2020 19:43

The fight for “fertility equality” - no prizes for guessing the price of that “equality”. Oh yes, farming women like farrowing sows. Babies for sale.
I’m too pissed off and upset to make a more articulate post.

thepostmillennial.com/baby-selling-is-big-business

OP posts:
FannyCann · 25/07/2020 19:47

The coronavirus economic disaster means more women will turn to surrogacy and egg selling to pay the bills.

timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/hyderabad/hyderabad-jobs-gone-women-turn-egg-donors-surrogates-to-survive/articleshow/77057560.cms

OP posts:
FannyCann · 25/07/2020 20:06

More about fertility "equality".
You'd almost think it was a joke, demanding. women provide babies for all. That's equality right?

www.nytimes.com/2020/07/22/style/lgbtq-fertility-surrogacy-coverage.html

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PumbaasCucumbas · 24/08/2020 22:40

I’m late to the thread, thanks for compiling this

OhHolyJesus · 25/08/2020 08:06

Ah thanks for reviving this Pumba - I'll add some new news articles to it this week.

TheFleegleHasLanded · 25/08/2020 10:09

A free webinar next week:

Topic
A Global Conversation on Surrogacy
Description
Why an international solution is needed to protect human rights.

Featuring:
Kajsa Ekis Ekman, author of "Being and Being Bought -
Prostitution, Surrogacy and the Split Self"
Gary Powell, CBC European Special Consultant
Jennifer Lahl, CBC President
Time
Sep 3, 2020 09:00 AM in Pacific Time (US and Canada)

us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_YziWNE4mTCi1tcgSXmLhfQ

OhHolyJesus · 25/08/2020 12:02

Oh Fleegle thanks for that, I've started new thread to share it and two other webinars on Surrogacy here

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4005312-Upcoming-Free-Surrogacy-Webinars-Global-Perspective-and-UK-Law-Reform?watched=1

CharlieParley · 25/08/2020 14:14

I posted this comment with a link to an excellent essay on the human rights aspect of surrogacy in the other thread where the topic was discussed recently, but thought it might also be useful here:

For anyone who would like to explore how surrogacy affects the rights of women and children in more detail, here is Lauren Hamstead's prize-winning essay from the Object! Essay Competition 2020

objectnow.org/how-do-altruistic-and-commercial-surrogacy-affect-the-rights-of-women-and-children/

I highly recommend it, especially because she also explores how damaging even the concept of "altruistic" surrogacy is to these human rights.

bambinaballerina · 25/08/2020 16:11

There's way more exploitation in international adoptions. A good percentage of children who are in orphanages are kidnapped and trafficked, they are sold, and that has increased during covid 19 pandemic. There was a recent case of a clinic for destitute women in India who were lied to and told their babies were stillborn, which was false, they were sold. I don't know why this is almost never discussed, it'a the elephant in the room people refuse to talk about.

OhHolyJesus · 25/08/2020 16:37

How awful bambina That sounds like the Butter Box Babies story in Nova Scotia from the 1920s.

100 years later and it still happens.

bambinaballerina · 25/08/2020 18:22

@OhHolyJesus yes, it happened in India, it's absolutely heartbreaking, and so many other similar stories of children between 0 and 3 taken away from their parents.

OhHolyJesus · 17/03/2021 10:06

Lastly, for now, something to explain what all the above is, in my view, connected to...

objectnow.org/sneaking-surrogacy-into-law/?fbclid=IwAR1cd1GzyE1AXubf5vV2NJdvtgBixUjoGol-6UeHUdMUs2BuPirRc6rd27Y

WeRoarSometimes · 17/03/2021 12:17

It's such a male view that because the sperm comes from a male, somehow the baby is only his.
The male still needs a female, an adult woman to provide an egg. An adult female is needed to carry, nourish, grow., The adult female's own health is becomes secondary due to the role it is taking in growing another life.

'Hiring indeed.'

WeRoarSometimes · 17/03/2021 15:34

@FannyCann
Thanks so much for all these resources.
I wanted to add that Dr Claire Fenton Glyn of the Cambridge Family Law Centre is hosting a series of lectures about surrogacy. She has written about surrogacy for the BBC and covered exploitation of women.

It's on the 30th March and on her twitter thread.

twitter.com/camfamilylaw/status/1369617318192513025/photo/1

Olderstyle1 · 17/03/2021 15:36

Thanks for that link OhHoly, just watched it. I'm so angry that this exploitative, dangerous and women-erasing shitshow is marketed as sweetness and light and happy families.

I took a look at 'Breaking the Bonds' - a compilation of surrogacy stories edited by Renata Klein. The stories are truly hearbreaking.

OhHolyJesus · 17/03/2021 16:29

No worries Older I loved Renate Klein's book "Surrogacy: A Human Right's Violation", it was incredibly well-referenced. It explores 'altruistic' surrogacy and she had a very interestive perspective on background/foreground, as in, if this is where we are now, where will it lead us?

Speaking of Klein, she presented in a webinar for WHRC at the weekend:

Others included Co-President of the International Coalition for the Abolition of Surrogate Motherhood, Marie Josèphe Devillers, France

and
Ghislene Gendron, Canada
Maria Binetti, Argentina -

It's long so I'm watching it in parts and I really enjoy listening to Renate.

OhHolyJesus · 14/05/2021 11:33

Updating this thread with the APPG report on surrogacy.

I was not surprised to see surrogate mothers referred to as 'surrogates', or to see a number of lawyers (including Freddy McConnell's lawyer, Andrew Spearman) and surrogacy agencies (including the Michael and Wes Ellis Johnson's who have started up My Surrogacy Journey) attend the sessions. I was surprised to see that not a single child or surrogacy attend, nor any child of donor conception be listed as an attendee. Women's groups who the Law Commission (finally) engaged with were also absent. I wonder if they were informed and invited to attend?

www.andrewpercy.org/storage/app/media/appgs/Surrogacy%20APPG%204.pdf

OhHolyJesus · 22/06/2021 22:43

Some recent threads and logging them here...

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4225575-International-Surrogacy-during-Covid-and-history-of-sex-offences

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4225838-new-feminist-campaign-stop-surrogacy-now

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/feminism/4204001-baby-born-to-surrogate-mother-still-with-her-nearly-one-year-on

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4205637-Gay-Man-rejects-Surrogacy

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4198876-Chinese-woman-s-unanesthetized-surgery-exposes-risks-of-illegal-surrogacy-running-riot

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4266878-surrogacy-can-create-orphans-a-surrogate-mother-dies

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4236078-rejected-by-35-women-two-men-become-fathers-through-surrogacy

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4239144-Surrogacy-ends-in-abortion-and-ends-a-friendship

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4149123-Another-gushing-story-in-The-Times-about-surrogacy

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4198047-sunday-times-style-sexism-on-surrogacy

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4254035-surrogacy-and-covid-vaccine

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/feminism/4274981-surrogacy-in-the-new-statesmen

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4223469-Altruistic-Surrogacy-in-a-family-and-Medical-Negligence-in-Belgium

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4216517-surrogacy-for-a-sister-account-of-jealousy-from-reddit

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4190209-Surrogacy-again-why-is-the-BBC-selling-this

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4192171-Where-New-Zealands-surrogacy-laws-could-be-headed

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4183102-Disturbing-Surrogacy-Front-pager-from-Ireland-this-afternoon

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4182042-FFS-re-Hilaria-Alec-Baldwin-and-normalisation-of-surrogacy

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4248703--With-science-I-can-have-a-baby-whenever-I-want

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4175168-single-man-looking-for-a-surrogate-bbc

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4166241-NHS-Psychiatrist-speaks-up-about-Surrogacy

FannyCann · 22/06/2021 23:12

Hi @MNHQ

I have no idea why this thread has been sorted into the new "sex and gender debate" area since surrogacy is a feminist issue unrelated to the "gender debate". Please could you transfer it to the "feminism chat" area. Thanks.

OP posts:
FannyCann · 23/06/2021 07:01

I was looking through the TikTok of a surrogacy agency in the USA to get a feel for the sort of advertising that will flood the social media of young women in the U.K. if the Law Commission proposal to lift the current ban on advertising is accepted.
This advertisement has utterly shocked me as well as giving a massive rage.

So if you don't meet the stringent requirements to qualify as a surrogate mother in the USA they may be able to organise for you to do it in U.K. , Canada or Greece.

The reason for the strict requirements in the USA has nothing to do with care for the women doing this and everything to do with the commercial imperative. Health care is expensive there so they don't want high risk pregnancies. Buyers are paying over $100k , they want a healthy baby.

But hey, if you are too old, too overweight, too high parity or have already had several LSCS that's fine. Go somewhere with good free (or cheap) healthcare and do it there.

I've no idea if the legalities of this, whether the NHS will charge, what the costs in Greece are etc.

But I'm furious. Angry

vm.tiktok.com/ZMdU7o9UF/

Surrogacy Resource thread : please post your links here
Surrogacy Resource thread : please post your links here
Surrogacy Resource thread : please post your links here
OP posts: