"Mumsnet statement on moderation with regard to..."

[RaveOnThisCrazyFeeling]

@MNHQ, I am wondering if the statement sticky at the top of this section needs a new, more accurate, less misleading title.

A large part of the difficulty that women encounter in discussing these issues comes from the framing of the issue as being about 'trans rights'. This implies that feminists are arguing against the equal rights of trans people, which of course isn't the case at all. It also disregards the fact that women and their rights have any stake in the issues being discussed - it makes it all about trans people having rights, or not having rights, and to the casual, uninformed observer that reinforces the TRA narrative that women are a privileged class denying the rights of oppressed transwomen.

In fact, women are the historically and systemically disadvantaged sex class, and so ha e a very large stake in legal and social understanding of sex and gender.

Might you give some consideration to changing the thread name (and OP as appropriate) to "...discussion of sex and gender" rather than "discussion of trans rights"?

Today's challenge is! Find an example of a case where someone on FWR called a trans person a donkey.

We'll wait.

Ahhh ProdigalKittens I think you’ve answered my ‘why don’t you go bother Piston Heads’ question to Snow and co.... it’s cos it’s only women who need monitoring and shushing. 💡

Honestly.

Here is a transwoman who uses mens' toilets. Here is a transwoman who uses women's toilets.

The transwoman shouldn't use women's toilets!

You're cherry picking your stories!!

The fact that the overwhelming majority of posts that are still deleted are removed because they are abusive.

Long term feminist users on this forum have asked that either posts are not deleted, or a reason is given for deletion for exactly this reason - deleted posts are weaponised and assumed to be transphobic.

I remember there was a long thread that ended up discussing animals (sheep?) “baying at the moon” but it was definitely baying and not braying.

Today's challenge is! Find an example of a case where someone on FWR called a trans person a donkey.

Possibly not a donkey but there was a thread a while ago making sniggering comments about identifying as 'pigs' or 'dogs'. It's been deleted of course so you'll probably say it never happened.

Totally OT but I just recently found the YT channel of a bloke whose Malamute wanders around howling at every person he meets because he just really likes people. It's officially the most wholesome thing on YT, and now the comment about the thread of oddness has reminded me.

The dog makes more sense than some comments here do tbh. He's certainly friendlier.

I've never seen anyone talk about identifying as a pig, pets maybe, farm animals, not so much.

And it's a legitimate comment because you cannot explain why one cannot identify is anything one likes.

Furthermore, many of our children identified as pets. And we know it wasn't real.

Careful, Kittens. snow might think you're being transphobic.

Well, there's no 'might' there, obviously.

Also, if I were to say "I identify as a cat" in what way would that mean that I was saying trans people were cats?

Here's the dog btw, because why not?

I identified as a golden retriever when I was about five, if that helps?

(Btw I'm a FWR regular with a namechange based on the fact Glinner retweeted one of my tweets.)

Ummm the donkey thing was a TRA thing cos the only trans related donkey I remember is the Donkey Kong marathon to spite Glinner.

Do I win?

I'm confused. How would a bunch of people playing Donkey Kong spite Glinner? Does he just really hate gaming?

Because the marathon Donkey Kong game raised lots of donations to Mermaids. We're probably not supposed to critique Mermaids, though, or the basement dwelling gamers playing Donkey Kong in their PJs that support them. Transphobic and abusive, innit?

I think it's because some man in America played donkey Kong, or something similar, in a 24 hour marathon, and gave all the sponsorship money to mermaids. And Glinner was outraged. So they taunted him with donkey comments.

But yeah, it's feminists who taunt people with donkey comments.

🙄

The woke man and his friends did it specifically because of Glinner supporting calls for the £500k National Lottery grant to Mermaids to be investigated/rescinded.

I've kind of lost track about what snow is accusing us of doing now tbh. Too distracted by cute howling dogs and trying to puzzle out how you'd spite someone by playing old school games at them.

Here's the dog btw, because why not?. He’s awesome!

Donkey Kong - I’ve googled and mostly got it right. Here’s a ‘totally unbiased’ BBC news article.

www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-leeds-46961883

Well there’s something that could be done. Why doesn’t @JustineMumsnet ask someone like @MichaelMumsnet to look at the stats. How many posts have been removed as a percentage of total posts, how many for breaking normal rules, how many for breaking the special rules. How many were clearly abusive, how many were removed as a caution etc, how do the stats from FWR compare across the whole site. And then for true independence, a review of a random sample of posts to see if both “sides” would agree if they were abusive or not. Would a good little project, surely there a work experience kid who could do the donkey work?

Too distracted by cute howling dogs that video led to the cutest koala aww

But back on track - MNHQ have agreed to amend the sticky title. Did they say when they would?

@JustineMumsnet

How about you put your advertisers' decision makers in a room, with half a dozen feminists from this board, and we can all have a chat?

Open, honest debate is highly beneficial. As is talking through issues. Promoting understanding and acceptance.

Many women here are commercially minded. They understand the bottom line. They have a wealth of experience and are not fools.

It might go some way to help them understand, help us understand what you're going through, and alleviate the pressure for everybody.

On that note I hope anyone involved in promoting puberty blockers has excellent insurance, because they're going to need it a few years down the line. The fact that that at least was allowed to be openly challenged here will I suspect end up counting as a big point in MNs favor.