We need to talk about what transgender means

[smemorata]

Now that Stonewall has put just about everyone who ever even thought about wearing a dress under the transgender "umbrella", they have more or less forced women to push back at everyone. I find this really ridiculous and also counterproductive. Women (and men surely?) know that we are talking about different things. For example -

1. an "AMAB" who feels acute gender dysphoria and goes through a lengthy process (both legally and medically) to gain a feeling of acceptance is not the same as -
2. an "AMAB" who occasionally wears women's clothing but also enjoys male privilege in most situations
3. an "AMAB" who always wears very OTT sexualised "feminine" clothing as part of a fetish which women are expected to collaborate in.
4. a woke "AMAB" who dresses as a man, has a beard but claims to know what feeling like a woman is. Has no intention of giving up male genitalia but expects women to recognise it as female.

I have met some lovely people who are in category 1 and would actually have no problem in treating them as women in most (though not all) circumstances. But what do they have in common with the others? Are we expected to forget that festishes exist? I really resent the way that the MRAs and TRAs are asking us to treat such very different people in exactly the same way - and that's before taking into account the ROGD people and trans men. I don't see how the debate can move on until these differences are recognised.

I will never understand why and how a group of a people that claim division and exclusion has held us back for centuries continue to encourage division and exclusion

Try listening with an open heart then.......you'll find some of the absolute best women there are. Sex exists. There are two of them. This has real material consequences.

If it’s not exclusive to 51% of the population it’s absolutely pointless

Even if not about exclusivity, feminism focuses on the female experience. Being female is a biological fact, not an inner feeling.

So I honestly cannot fathom how excluded a trans woman might feel .. but her feelings don't count right because you believe she isn't entitled to a thought or feeling on this because her dna coding is different to yours ..

Utter rubbish. A transwoman can have any thought or feeling they like. What they can't do is expect other people to believe they've changed sex.

And incidentally, feminism is the liberation of women from patriarchal control. Anyone can do it. You don't need permission. You just need to work towards the goal.

It's not a club.

I'll never be able to lose hold of vision of unified peoples standing together regardless .. simply just regardless of anything. And because of that .. things like this just make me so very sad and disappointed

You are bound, then, to a life of disappointment. Because life is not ideal. The higher the ideal; the greater the fall and the disappointment.
That is what politics is about: managing the conflicts between imagination and reality.

The Layla Moran school of politics.......

For me gender is a biological not a psychological thing so if previous men have had all the operations and medication and then want to be called a woman OK but a bloke in a dress who wants to be considered as a woman no not ok. It's a bloke in a dress.

And because of that .. things like this just make me so very sad and disappointed.

Oh well. Never mind. C'est la vie.

Thankfully, I'm long since immune to all lives matter preachy moralising and shall stick to concentrating on women's rights and child safeguarding.

And because of that .. things like this just make me so very sad and disappointed.

Oh well. Lucky I don't depend on you for validation or approval of my thoughts, beliefs or actions.

call me horrendous names, bully me, question my intelligence and belittle me for offering an alternative view point.

You've got screenshots of this, right?

You might "feel sad"; but I feel so damn angry that many seem unable to empathise with the position of women; of what it means to be female in society. the reasons why women are vulnerable and why they require single sex spaces for their own dignity, comfort and safety.

Me too. Why do so many people of both sexes expect women to put their own feelings second? Could it be sexism?

I really don't want to spend another few hours being attacked, shouted at and talked down to by people who one hand say they advocate for my rights and then stamp unceremoniously on my right to an opinion on a subject ..

However as I've stated previously yes some horrible people have used the 'trans' card to put themselves in a position to harm people whilst in a position of authority.. so have biological women (I see countless stories of "foster mothers" caught out abusing their wards horrendously and having them purely for the cash they get for fostering, mothers convicted of heinous crimes against their own children, recently here in the UK a story of such severe domestic violence carried about by a small woman against her partner over a span of years that the police officer that finally saved this man needed therapy to get over the trauma of what he was exposed to during the rescue, female prison guards pimping out inmates to other male prison guards .. the list goes on and on)

If it were only transgender people carrying out sexual assault on the basis of their status I'd be totally on board for this but what you're doing here is "trans woman abused people in her care .. all trans women are dangerous to women and children and should be segregated"

We've heard this rhetoric before and it never leads anywhere good and if it makes me idealist or stupid to have hoped we as a society had learned from the segregation of people based on the actions of a tiny minority within them.. then fine so be it.

If it makes me stupid and worthy of your abuse and nastiness that I can't understand how a fully transgendered woman believing she is now a woman impacts on your fight for fair treatment of our gender then so be it.. personally I'd be happy for a sister in the cause because let's face no one will have worked harder for acceptance or rights than she will have just to be legally accepted as female ..

If I'm a moron for thinking we should be embracing each other and each others battles so that the fight may finally end then I'm happy to be a moron .. rather a moron with hope and love at the base of my intentions than what I'm seeing here.

@Ereshkigal no I didn't take screen shots, I reported to admin and now the thread has gone so I can't retrieve them but hold on I'm sure there's more to come now.. I dared to think differently so let's watch this space

Of course you have the right to an opinion. And others have the right to tell you why they think you're wrong. If you think you have a sound argument, what's the issue?

no I didn't take screen shots, I reported to admin and now the thread has gone so I can't retrieve them

Ah. How unfortunate.

Oh for goodness sake. Take a damper.

Men commit 98% of all sexually violent crime. I'm sorry if that makes you sad, disappointed, and upset. But they do. That's why we have sex segregation. 20% of women will suffer from some kind of sexual assault in their lives. Those assaults are almost all committed by, yep you've guessed it, men.

Invoking women who commit assault doesn't alter those statistics.

The single biggest protection women have is to segregate by sex.

what you're doing here is "trans woman abused people in her care .. all trans women are dangerous to women and children and should be segregated"

I've never seen anything like that here. Maybe you could post a screenshot or a link.

What do you mean by segregated? Transwomen shouldn't be allowed in women-only spaces because they are not women. They are not women because they were born male and people can't change sex. Wishful thinking doesn't change scientific facts.

Luckily, I saved one of my own posts from that thread. Here it is:

Perhaps a professor of law with an expertise in human rights can help you leave your bigoted opinions regarding women and their rights behind, ahenderson?

Professor Rosa Freedman:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=FYQL5PZ_tSU

Practising what you preach is so important, after all.
When you are done with that you might like to explore the work of (retired Professor) Sheila Jeffreys:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=DTPgmTVt5_Q

HTH

Who has called you a moron?

Do you mean Justhadathought's post where she refers to Layla MORAN?

* ...*what you're doing here is "trans woman abused people in her care .. all trans women are dangerous to women and children and should be segregated"

That is (deliberately?) misrepresenting what people here say.

It would be more like - transwoman harmed a woman or a child. How can we tell between good and bad. We can't. To be on the safe side we will have to stick to sex to separate people rather than this new-fangled, made up, impossible to define gender idea..

Oh that thread. Before it was shut down (for privacy of the OP reasons I believe, not rampant transphobia) I seem to remember some rather goady posts from this poster. Perhaps I'm misremembering.

Do you mean Justhadathought's post where she refers to Layla MORAN?

LOL

That is (deliberately?) misrepresenting what people here say.

What? No! Surely not!

I can't understand how a fully transgendered woman believing she is now a woman impacts on your fight for fair treatment of our gender

What is a 'fully transgendered woman'? I don't object to such a person believing anything they want to. But I object to people trying to force me to believe it as well.

What is a 'fully transgendered woman'?

I think that’s a transman! Such tricky language, isn’t it?

Male human and female human is so much clearer!

For me gender is a biological not a psychological thing so if previous men have had all the operations and medication and then want to be called a woman OK but a bloke in a dress who wants to be considered as a woman no not ok. It's a bloke in a dress.

It's all the same to me. Women are not eunuchs, nor are we men who have grown big moobs. This idea that castrated men can be lumped in with women has been around for a very long time. I find it revolting and I don't understand why any feminist would want to promote such a regressive idea.