Do you think disabled toilets will be reassigned to accommodate transgender people?

[yellowallpaper]

Councils won't be building toilets just for transgender people and women will object (rightly) to gendered men using their loos, so it seems likely disabled toilets might end up reassigned to accommodate the differently gendered community.

I have a disabled child and finding a suitable loo which isn't being used by someone not wishing to queue, is difficult enough as it is.

Do you think this is a possibility?

It's quite possible, in my opinion. Public bodies and businesses aren't actually interested in 'inclusivity' because that takes genuine effort, time and money to understand the needs of different groups and find sensible solutions.

It's why at the moment simply replacing the Female label on doors with Gender Neutral is enough of a token gesture to win them woke points. It's the easiest and cheapest and laziest option. It gives the impression of being progressive and inclusive while doing no such thing, especially for women.

What should happen is maintaining decent toilet provision for women and disabled people alongside unisex toilets.

The thing is, unisex toilets don't have to be just for trans people. If queues are long and someone is in a rush, they can use the unisex toilet. Lots of woke and 'cis' people claim to not be bothered by unisex toilets, so they will also be happy to use them.
The unisex toilets can also be designed with baby changing facilities so that parents of either sex can take small children to the loo. At the moment, parents might struggle to take their children to a single sex loo as they get older, but a larger self-contained stall will help parents, especially those with multiple children, to use the facilities.
If you are a bit old or infirm and your carer is of the opposite sex, at the moment they might not be able to accompany you to a single sex toilet, but they can help you use a unisex one etc.

I'm sure there's loads of ways to design an extra stall that is unisex and can be used by different people for various purposes without infringing on single sex or disabled facilities. It's not something that only trans people would use.

It's deliberate laziness on the part of public bodies and businesses to claim that it's a tricky issue and deliberate strategy from TRAs to pretend like third spaces are not feasible.

I would highly recommend disabled charities and support groups (and disabled people) to voice opposition on any ideas to convert disabled loos into ones for trans people.

We all need better toilet facilities and it's so hard to get businesses and architects to properly plan for such basic needs.

Well that is certainly the approach Irish Universities are taking. Others have adopted a similar approach since this 2017 article.
www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/row-over-change-of-nui-galway-disabled-toilets-to-transgender-ones-1.3205988?mode=amp

"Emer Coyne, a mature arts student at the university, said she was shocked the university had changed the only disabled toilet in the nursing library to an all-gender toilet.

There are now 30 transgender toilets on campus; 14 of them were formerly disabled toilets.

Ms Coyne, who is registered disabled following Ovarian cancer, claimed the university was reducing accessibility for disabled people in the name of political correctness and to accommodate a small number of transgender people on campus.

“I don’t believe accessibility for the most seriously disabled on campus should be reduced to accommodate fully able-bodied people,” she said. “Equal rights for them (transgender people) does not mean fewer rights for people with disabilities.”

She accused NUI Galway of not thinking through its policy on changing disabled toilets to gender neutral toilets.

“It’s an insult to students with disabilities. If you don’t have a car space to suit you do you take a disabled one? No because it’s not right. I am understanding of students that need gender neutral toilets, but taking disabled toilets is absolutely not the solution, they need to find another solution- a more appropriate one.”

NUI Galway confirmed there are 90 toilets across campus for students with a physical disability of which 14 are also designated as gender neutral...

...The arrangement was defended by NUI Galway Students’ Union. President Lorcán Ó Maoileannaigh said the toilets in question were not being reallocated or converted, but have simply been designated as both gender neutral bathrooms and disability bathrooms.

“One has not been replaced with the other,” he said

Mr Ó Maoileannaigh said the move had been supported by the university’s buildings office, all of students services and the students’ union.

Mr Ó Maoileannaigh said only a “very small percentage of students who identify as trans and non-binary” will use them but that it was important to improve accessibility for transgender students and would not be at the expense of disabled students.

“We have not had any student who has had accessibility problems since the signage on the bathrooms has been changed,” he said."

I hope not. They should just have female loos, urinals, a small number of unisex fully enclosed loos with a sink, and disabled loos.

I hope not too ManiacalLapwing. Society needs to do far more to make spaces more accessible. I don’t have a disability but volunteer with those that do and have friends employed in supporting roles.

Whilst I hope not, I do think it is likely for the reasons NonnyMouse said.

In sainsbury's recently I noticed the signs had been changed (the whole shop has had a makeover). There are brand new signs of a woman on the female loos, a man on the male loos, and a man, woman and person in a wheelchair on the disabled loo.

I fully enclosed unisex loos may also be accessible to people with certain disabilities who need the privacy, access to a sink and so on, but not the full facilities of a disabled loo.

If this is the way public buildings chooses to go, then they need to at least double the current accessible provision.

They’ll just call them “accessible” toilets instead of “disabled” toilets and they’ll be for anyone who can’t use the regular toilets. They already get used by non disabled people because the baby change is frequently in there.

I think the issue with "overuse" of the disabled toilet is not just limited to trans people adding to the queue; I am able bodied but use the disabled toilet whenever I feel unsafe entering the ladies loo room because I'm unsure of the types of people that might be in there. My use of disabled toilets has increased significantly since I have read stories of self-ID male-bodied women using ladies toilets.

I am really sorry for causing queues for the disabled loo, but until there is another provision of toilets I can access from an open space (ie not enter the main room and then use a cubicle/sub room) then the disabled loo seems the safest option to me. I will also be teaching my daughter to make similar judgements depending on where she is.

Mr Ó Maoileannaigh said only a “very small percentage of students who identify as trans and non-binary” will use them but that it was important to improve accessibility for transgender students and would not be at the expense of disabled students.

If they are "all gender" then they're open to everyone if there's a queue or even if there isn't.

So, yes, it is at the expense of students with disabilities or others who need the additional space etc.

Yes. I was at an event recently and waiting to use a disabled toilet - clear disabled image on the door. Eventually a woman (who identified as non binary - she had badges on - I'm not kidding) came out and I asked if there was any other toilets, she told me there was a ladies upstairs (I didn't know as there were no signs indicating that) and that the one she'd just been in was ''Gender neutral''

So yes I think they will, and it looks like non binary people and whoever else are already using them anyway?

@HappyAsASandboy I have been doing the same too quite a bit.

Accessible toilets are designed to be accessible to people with mobility issues. The intention behind them isn't that people with mobility issues never have to queue, after all how urgently you need to use the toilet is not related to how large and accessible a cubicle you need.

I thought that disabled toilets were already "gender neutral"? I mean ove never seen separate mens or womens disabled toilets they are usually stand alone fully enclosed rooms used by men or women who need them.

There must be a law about this? A designated ratio that must be fulfilled ?

I thought being trans wasnt a mental.illness or disability so why would they need a disabled toilet. Isnt that transphobic?

Trans rights peeps won't use the disabled toilets as it is, "demeaning". There is one Fe college I worked at where one toilet (disabled) was also designated for Trans people, this was marked with s discreet dot. It was s college with an accessible toilet for every male and female, all with different features eg a shower or different hoist equipment.

It already has happened in that the disabled facilities have become the automatic alternative for female people who do not feel safe to enter a mixed sex facility. Since the cheap/easy solution to the TRA onslaught has been to remove single sex provision for females and just declare it open house for any and all males who feel so inclined, many women unable to use mix sexed spaces will either be forced to use disabled provision or to stay at home.

So males who insist on appropriating single sex female space for their own purposes have successfully excluded and disenfranchised women and reduced access and facilities for the disabled. Well done them. Although they will gladly tell you that those women don't deserve to have access since clinging to stupid things like their faith, trauma, disability etc makes them - now how did that woman put it at Speaker's Corner? Oh yes. 'A piece of shit'.

And we have public bodies and politicians actually enabling this and approving of this.

So the rights of disabled people is being squeezed out yet again. Really no surprise. As there only usually 1 available however big the venue, it's going to make going out even more difficult. ☹️

In the scenario where men's loos be redesigned to cater for consenting women too, the inclusion of natal women in them would make them safer for boys too as there would be more people in them who are statistically less likely to be sex offenders or who follow male patterns towards violent crime

And once again girls and women placed in danger in order to control the behaviour of men.

Although of course it will end up safer anyway cos all the decent men will be in the mens and all the weirdos will be in the womens exploiting the loop holes

I'll add that the female people forced to use the disabled spaces will not be wailing about feeling stigmatised either. They'll be very quietly and apologetically using those facilities as discreetly and fast as possible while worrying about who else's needs they're intruding on and hoping in fear that no one with blue hair screams in their face about why they just looked at the unisex sign on the previously female only space and backed away.

Spot the oppression. The actual oppression.

It's already happened in one university building that I frequently use. At the beginning of this academic year, three of the four accessible toilets had been relabelled as gender neutral. There is now one accessible toilet which requires a radar key to enter, and the others are open to anyone. The cleanliness has gone noticeably downhill.

jesus

There have been a few trans women I think who have publically stated that they use mens loos with no issues. In fact given they report so much violence the one newspaper article about a trans woman beaten up in the toilets was actually beaten up by 2 women ( although there was alot more to the story than was first printed iirc)

No one ever seems to ask where the reports of men beating up transwomen in the toilets are. Or in fact how its helpful making toilets mixed sex so these same men that are alledgedly beating them up can follow them in there

It’s already happening!

It negates the purpose of disabled loos. My DF has a disabled radar key which opens disabled toilets. He had to apply for it’s he is disabled. This system will be compromised and many will suffer in larger venues with high demand.

Smaller venues with low demand are very different and often don’t have the radar keys anyway