Do you think disabled toilets will be reassigned to accommodate transgender people?

[yellowallpaper]

Councils won't be building toilets just for transgender people and women will object (rightly) to gendered men using their loos, so it seems likely disabled toilets might end up reassigned to accommodate the differently gendered community.

I have a disabled child and finding a suitable loo which isn't being used by someone not wishing to queue, is difficult enough as it is.

Do you think this is a possibility?

Love to know how anyone can look at a toilet user and form an instant and infallible opinion of their disability status.

Depends on the set up doesnt it criss

Sometimes its obvious. In instances where theres a queue for the toilets and people just randomly drop out the queue and go in the disabled having got fed up of waiting.

If you just got there and someone was in it and walked out then you wouldnt know obviously.

I'm sure there must be conditions that require a disabled toilet that are by nature not the sort of thing you would wish to discuss with random uppity strangers in Asda.

Is that before or after they grab your shoulders point and go " that's ones free are you gonna use it" then roll their eyes and step out from behind you and use it themselves?

I'm sure there must be conditions that require a disabled toilet that are by nature not the sort of thing you would wish to discuss with random uppity strangers in Asda.

I could certainly have never paused to discuss the matter if I was experiencing urgency with IBS (so I had very carefully-planned routes for my commute as mine was limited to the morning). I remember what a mess it was for my mother when she had stoma problems. I can't think what it's like for overactive bladder syndrome, Crohn's, UC and a mass of other conditions - none of which anyone who have to discuss with random people.

Exactly arran there would be no discussion. Theyd just use it surely ?

They wouldnt be fourth in the queue behind people very obviously leaving it open for someone who needs it, moaning for ten minutes about the queue then trying to hurry it along by telling people that theres one available right there because wed stand there all day if a man didnt tell us one was free before using it themselves .

“ Amongst those I know, mostly older FTMs ..., buying or being gifted a RADAR key has become a rite of passage“

Sad that women can be as selfish and antisocial as men (or can i blame that on the testosterone injections?). It’s the usual hierarchy of power: men (including TRAAs) always getting first choice and taking what they want; then women, then people with genuine disabilities get what’s left.

@SarahTancredi

No, it isn't dismissive, unless you believe that there is a hierarchy of loo-users with disabled people permanently at the bottom. My post was in response to the person who said that she routinely uses the disabled toilet because she feels uncomfortable using the ladies "because there might be a male-bodied person in there" and that she intends to instruct her daughter to do the same. Did you include her in the "no one" who thinks able-bodied people should use disabled toilets? And did you, for a nano-second, consider whilst you were ticking me off, that you might be being "awfully dismissive" of the discomfort of the disabled person wetting themselves waiting for the able-bodied to finish with the disabled loo?

I’m with you on this justcly. You really weren’t dismissive at all.

I do find it unsettling to see non disabled women making an active choice to use the disabled loo in order to avoid a risk of using the ladies. Disabled people fought hard to have those toilets, and still do have to fight for them.

Like thinkingaboutit said it’s sad that women can be as selfish and antisocial as men

I never said people should use the disabled loos. Ever. Not unless they do actually need them. I certainly dont think theirs a hierarchy. Just a bunch of entitled men who dont give a shit if women are put in danger with creeps using the ladies and who think they are too good queue with the rest of us.

It is a shame that some women can be as selfish for sure. But men take it to another level with that other well known "steering" phenomenon. Where they physically shove/move/steer you into trying to use it because God forbid u leave a cubicle empty..

And obviously if men hadnt started this crap no one would be in this position in the first place

Justcly completely with you, no able bodied person should be using the disabled and it does create a hierarchy where the disabled are at the bottom. My child is severely disabled, aged 11, still in nappies much of the time. If they need a toilet they need it relatively quickly due to digestion problems they also have. Their world is already small and much of it inaccessible. The hierarchy is because there are not enough facilities for both the disabled and able bodied people. If this becomes the norm people like us will think twice before going out. It’s already difficult enough. I’m sure the able bodied who think like this would not expect their lives and opportunities to be limited, but they are prepared to do this to the disabled. Yes men created this problem but passing the problem on to the disabled is wrong. Obviously I don’t agree with disabled facilities being designated unisex for transgender individuals. Honestly unless you have dealt with disability, be it learning, physical or other you have no idea how this sort of behaviour impacts on the lives of the disabled.

yes men created this problem but passing the problem on to the disabled is wrong

I never said I thought it was right. Far from.it.

In fact its unbelievable that we are even in this situation.

I mean its ridiculous isn't it. The choices now seem to be between taking your chances in the ladies whilst knowing full well that should you encounter a bloke it's far more likely this is a predatory man than a trans person, that you have to share in some mixed sex loos where again men have kept theirs so what are the chances that the men using the so called gender.neutral toilets actually all ok. And those who have real fears of men through assaults etc have to choose between not going out at all or placing someone in N even worse position they are. Having no loo they can use.

I dont think there is or has ever been a phenomenon that manages to override sense, science and equality and have you supposed to be grateful for it than this.

All while men know full well that they have the urinal excuse that allows them not only to shirk their responsibilities as Parents but also to emphasise their importance by making the ladies default mixed sex because now women are taking their kids aged 10/11 and in one case on MN I've seen 17 into the womens because despite claiming to be one of the good guys they repeatedly draw on the existence if the bad guys to get one over on us.

I'm.sure I read an.article on twitter somewhere that the first Male public toilets were available in the 1700s and the first female ones were like 200 years later.

So men have overridden in a short space of time 200 years of fighting. Its certainly no coincidence they now have women fighting amongst themselves too.

It's a bloody joke.

SarahTancredi my post was not aimed at you in particular. I just find it ironic to read that some on here have said that they don’t feel safe in a particular facility so feel entitled to use the facilities of another vulnerable group, regardless of how that group feels. As you have said some women may feel they are unable to go out as a result but this is already the case for lots of disabled people.

I think what's most ironic is that men created this issue, and now whatever "solution" women pick to try to counter act it, well whichever group of women suffer in the process, well that becomes our fault.

Whatever we do someone loses out and that's our fault. And men are getting a free pass cos well they use their toilets and they use the gender neutral ones cos that's allowed now. So they are doing nothing wrong. But us, we are constantly having to chose, do we screw ourselves over, do we screw someone else over, do we put our kids at risk, do we not go anywhere at all, do we get the police/security called on us for challenging people.

Its unbelievable. We can't win. Theres no way out of this mess is there..

It’s not really a choice when you are disabled to screw yourself over or screw someone else over. You know that you are at the bottom of the hierarchy.

No, I guess not. It's certainly a.position I refuse to put someone in no matter how many times I get shoved forward or spoken to like I'm stood there for fun.

The whole thing stinks frankly. And all solved so easily..

The Fitzwilliam Museum in Cambridge has done this. The disabled loo now not only has the baby change in it, but now is also signed as 'gender neutral'. The ladies and gents still have single sex signs on the door.

So that's people with disabilities being made to shove over when facilities are already inadequate.

Yes the solution is so easy, in theory at least, the backlash against all this can’t come soon enough.

Jayneisagirlsname. I find this so disturbing. A few years ago I could visit most places without having to worry too much about facilities but now there are less and less places that are specifically designated to the needs of disabled people. This is all happening at a time when I’m trying to prepare my child for teenage years and gaining some degree of independence. Even the centre that provides his respite has gone gender neutral. This is a place that deals with severely disabled children and teenagers who are going through the changes of puberty with far less understanding of what is happening to them than a typical child.

@Biscuitorcake DS is also 11 and severely disabled. He is at an age where we really need a 'changing places' toilet, and moves to get more of these are slowly going forward. I am sick already of the state of some accessible toilets, and I will have a screaming attack of banshee itis if these valuable assets are downgraded to accommodate anyone who can't make up their mind if they want to be male or female.

Me too yellowallpaper They shouldn’t be seen as the default option for anyone who doesn’t want to use the other facilities. Like the username, is it from the Charlotte Perkin’s Gilman book? Already exhausted from the responsibilities without this too. Thanks for reminding me that I need to look into changing places. My child is far too big for the baby change tables and changing on the floor is gross.

@SarahTancredi: I never said people should use the disabled loos.

I don't think anyone suggested you had. My original post was aimed at another poster who said she did, would continue to, and would encourage her daughter to do the same.

I am a feminist. I also have MS, and whilst I am not incontinent, I do have a very short urge time. That's a matter of a minute or two between first getting the urge to go, and having an accident. We need an answer to the problem of male-bodied people in women's spaces and we need it fast. Taking a precious resource from disabled people isn't it.

There is a perfectly lawful and simple answer. Just everyone's to spineless to enforce it.

They happily break the law without question but applying the equality act exemptions is a step too far

No way should accessible toilets be shared any more than they are being.

Agree with just.

The clue is in the cubicle size and design fgs. Designed for people who literally can't physically access the ordinary facilities or stalls.