Do you think disabled toilets will be reassigned to accommodate transgender people?

[yellowallpaper]

Councils won't be building toilets just for transgender people and women will object (rightly) to gendered men using their loos, so it seems likely disabled toilets might end up reassigned to accommodate the differently gendered community.

I have a disabled child and finding a suitable loo which isn't being used by someone not wishing to queue, is difficult enough as it is.

Do you think this is a possibility?

Yet another way activists waste our time and energy.
Both women and disabled people have had to fight for the small amount of space we've been allowed, and we have to constantly fight to keep them.

The only reason men's toilets can't be made mixed sex is to cater for religious groups who can't share with women.
But I can't see any religious groups protesting to retain women's spaces, and so this is one reason we need to keep The Equality Act.
Nothing else protects the rights of disabled people and women. There is no political will to do so.

I don't think they would be appeased by using the mixed sex mens. This has never been about taking over a space it's been about making sure women know their place.

I'm.sure many would be suddenly triggered by seeing a urinal or a man using the urinal.

@yellowallpaper yes, the rights of the disabled are being squeezed out again. The changes to single-sex spaces being pushed through in the name of inclusivity is driving organisations to squeeze female-only spaces and disabled-only spaces out, and that is driving women (and men?) to further squeeze out disabled spaces.

I don't give a stuff about gender. Call yourself whatever you want, wear whatever you want, have sex with whoever you want (as long as they're willing!). Single sex spaces need protecting; you either own a penis or a vagina and there are some situations I dont want to be in the same space as penis owners.

They’ll just call them “accessible” toilets instead of “disabled” toilets and they’ll be for anyone who can’t use the regular toilets

They already are officially called ‘accessible toilets’ and have been for many years, nothing to do with trans. Apart from anything else the toilets aren’t disabled - they are still working so ‘accessible’ is clearer terminology.

In terms of trans - I do think truly dysphoric individuals should be able to use accessible toilets. But the vast majority of transgender individuals are not dysphoric and should use the toilets which are separated on the basis of sex not gender so are already ‘gender neutral’.

They already get used by non disabled people because the baby change is frequently in there.

This really annoys me. My disabled cousin and a very elderly woman with walking sticks ended up queuing in the women's loos with me at a National Trust house earlier this year because of a queue of parents with babies and toddlers was waiting to use the only disabled loo, which had the baby changing facilities in it. There was room for a decorative mahogany chest of drawers in the ladies, so room for a changing table too. 🙄 This thread has reminded me to email to tell them to sort it out.

I don't know why Men's toilets don't become mixed sex
I'd imagine that men want single sex loos for many of the same reasons that women do.
I like your point that it would bring the problem to everyone's attention, though, and highlight all our arguments.

Yes I agree that it's already happening. I know a lot of men who use the disabled toilet when out with their children because the men's toilet is too revolting.

@2Rebecca - just to correct you, they are not just for people with mobility issues. They are for people with all kinds of disabilities

User ‘all gender’ toilets with my ASD DD for the first time this week. She is 8 so has no concept of the issues being discussed. However she was clearly stressed and said to me, ‘I don’t like men cueing with us and the toilets smell bad’.

The men were also complaining about having to wait whereas with urinals they don’t have to.

Madness.

Used not user

I am an incredibly Lucky person

No really !

I live in York ... Beautiful town, loads to do, theatres, cinemas, museums ... you name it ... we got it

(Jeeze, i should work for the Tourist Board)

Starting about 7 or so years ago, most public toilets (Not talking about theatres or whatnot) were changed

No more the old Ladies full of cubicles and Gents with cubicles and urinals

Now we have single occupancy stalls

You put your 50p in the slot (See Note)
lock the door behind you
do what you must
wash your hands
(we do all wash our hands .... don't we?)
and then leave

The facilities are suitable for the disabled

• no steps to get in
• wide doors (wheelchairs etc)
• grab rails
• sinks not too high

Suitable for People with Pushchairs

• Some have Changing facilities etc
• lots of room inside (really ... loads of space)

There is no sign for the disabled ... nor for Ladies ... or Gents

When you enter you have no idea (absent the stream of wee all over the seat) whether the previous occupant was male or female

When you leave you have no idea who the next occupant (or their sex) will be

nobody knows ... nobody cares

Works really well.

(Note) 50p ...
Fifty Fuckin Pence for a widdle
Can ya believe that?
FIFTY PENCE
Jeeze

Fifty Fuckin Pence for a widdle

Is there no resident or discount scheme for those who need it?

I understand that such luxurious lavatories have to be funded somehow and it's probably no different to the 'unnecessary sandwich/tea' tax that people pay when they have to use a shop's facilities but it feels like a lot for people with urgency, those with children, pregnant women etc etc.

Trans women who insist on validation from women will never use disabled or mixed sex loos.

They won't be happy with men's toilets becoming mixed sex either.

They don't want men's space - women's space - a third space.

Only total capitulation from women will do.

Unless they are disabled then no.

Being trans isn't even a mental condition, so I've been told, so it's not even an invisible disability.

Everyone should use the public toilet according to their sex, being that this is how public toilets operate, and the unisex disabled toilet can be for anyone who is disabled.

I still find it strange that the baby changing is usually the same as the disabled space as they are largely unrelated but this works in practice for the businesses and public spaces most of the time I suppose. There is limited space to provide facilities in reality.

50p??? Do they have any radar key ones?

I do think this will happen because it's exactly what happened with wheelchair spaces on buses -- people with more social power found them useful and so they took them (for prams).

Being trans isn't even a mental condition

So they tell us while at the same time demanding, under threat of suicide, medical treatment on the nhs to treat it. And given the incredibly high complication rate for phalloplasty, many of those who have had surgery may well need to use the accessible toilet for physical reasons.

Ok, so disabled loos manage fine being unisex, so I would leave as is. Then remove urinals from the men’s and make a larger unisex space for men and women and trans with cubicals and no urinals

I (as a boring vagina possessing woman) loathe mixed sex toilets. They always stink and have urine splashed on the floor and all over the seat. Men (sorry to generalise) but generally speaking, have disgusting toilet habits. I have a DH and sons so I know what I'm talking about! I don't want to take DS1 into an accessible toilet, help him onto a seat and settle him to wee, knowing I'm just in any old unisex toilet with urine splashed everywhere. Assessable toilets are usually well maintained.

I'm not liking any of this.

Then remove urinals from the men’s and make a larger unisex space for men and women and trans with cubicals and no urinals

I think that suggestion could make things impact in men 2 fold 1) longer queues
2) without the urinal excuse men would have to take their children to the toilet as opposed to dumping them on wives and girlfriends or aunts in the long queues for the ladies.

Would get them complaining. But probably Just campaigning for them all to use the ladies

They always stink and have urine splashed on the floor and all over the seat.

This isn't great but I'm to the point where I carry a compact cleaning kit with me if I know I have to use public facilities (like a train)* because they're horribly messy. No, of course people should be tidy and clean up after themselves but they don't. And yes, it's very inconvenient but it feels like the least worst option.

*I started carrying a kit when IBS was life-alteringly bad because it wasn't up to other people to clean up my mess. The IBS is now in my past (and I hope it stays there) but then the kit started being useful in general.

Disabled toilets are being used increasingly by many transmen who, perhaps unsurprisingly feel unsafe in the men's loos, but no longer want to use the women's (Not validating? Scared of being challenged?). Amongst those I know, mostly older FTMs who would previously have described themselves as butch lesbians, buying or being gifted a RADAR key has become a rite of passage, along with the double mastectomy and the testosterone injections.

The thing about being disabled is that for some of us, when we need the loo, we need the loo. I have MS, and whilst I am not incontinent, I don't get the same length of urge-time as able-bodied people. The chances of me having an accident are exponentially increased when I have to queue for the toilet. As it is, I find able-bodied people using disabled facilities really irritating. I appreciate that male-bodied people using women's toilets might be uncomfortable. What I don't understand is why you are taking it out on me.

As it is, I find able-bodied people using disabled facilities really irritating. I appreciate that male-bodied people using women's toilets might be uncomfortable. What I don't understand is why you are taking it out on me

That's awfully dismissive just

No they shouldn't use the disablelled no one thinks they should. Toilets are segregated by SEX and thTs the ones peope should use as the womens will have sanitary bins, dispensing machines and no urinals. Women cant use urinals. And mens loos have urinals which serve their anatomy make up better.

But

When theres a choice between mens loos and gender neutral loos theh by default the very men using the womens loos are the very ones who have no business being there. Its more than " just a little uncomfortable" it's down right dangerous.