Slogans!

[xxyzz]

This thread is about slogans, and the need for them.

I've commented previously that one of the great strengths the TRAs currently possess is that they have had several years to frame the debate on their own terms, before most feminists were even aware that there was an issue, and in particular, to devise and propagate widely used and certain easy-to-remember slogans.

As others have pointed out, TWAW is extremely effective at ending discusssion. It pithily expresses an easy-to-understand point, but requires dense and not-easy-to-follow text to argue against.

Given that most social media interactions are brief, people are busy, and not necessarily particularly bright, and given that TWAW has been out there as a 'truth' for years, GC feminists are facing an uphill struggle to explain in similarly pithy, simple language why it is wrong.

Which brings me to SLOGANS.

GC feminists need to be redefining the debate with our own, equally, or more effective slogans. These need to explain our key points using simple words that everyone understands, and they need to be repeated relentlessly- as TWAW has been. The success of 'Get Brexit done' as a slogan - and the Tories religiously on-message use of it throughout the election campaign- was a big part of their recent success. Just as 'Take Back Control'was a hugely effective slogan before the referendum in 2016.

The importance of slogans should not be under-estimated.

FWIW, I don't think 'Women are Adult Human Females' is a successful slogan at all. Because:

a) It sounds utterly batshit to anyone not already following the debate - of course women are adult human females!
b) It allows TRAs to continue to frame the debate in terms of a discussion over who is a woman. When actually, this is something that has been known for thousands of years and even a toddler could tell you. We should not be arguing primarily on their territory. It does us no favours.
c) Most importantly, it ignores women's main issues with TRA claims. We are not arguing over terminology, we are arguing over women's and children's SAFETY and RIGHTS.The terminology matters only insofar as it is being used to undermine that safety and those rights. But by putting the cart before the horse, we have lost most of our audience, who don't follow us long enough past the batshitttery to find out WHY we care about the terminology.

So I think we need slogans that go back to basics.

We need slogans that fight on our own territory and frame the debate through our own eyes, not through the eyes of those intent on dismantling women's rights.

I would suggest that what we need are slogans that simply and clearly point out and go on the offensive over misogyny and attacks on women's rights - as feminists have always done.

Please suggest your effective slogans below. Sure that we can crowdsourced some better slogans than we have currently.

Over to you...

I think woman =adult human male female is taking the argument back from the trans activists. Instead of arguing twanw, which would be arguing on their terms. It’s not women’s job to define what tw are, but we can define our boundaries and say this is what women are and you don’t fit in that criteria. That is taking back the argument and keeping it focused on women, so we can talk about this in terms of how it effects us.

I haven’t got a witty slogan but something needs to be said about sexism still fucking up people’s lives. If they succeed in getting rid of sex then we can’t even name it.

How about some focusing on women's sport.
"Take back our podiums"
"The only balls in women's football should be ones we can kick"
"Legally winning is still morally cheating"
"Women's sport for females."
"Transwomen winning in women's games is just not sporting."

"Fair play for the fair sex". #fairplay #fairsex.

Btw I am black and the 'fair/fairer' sex bit doesn't bother me one jot.

Oh I like that - and we can make signs in the suffragette style, like the "wrong side of history my arse" banner.

I don’t see why you can’t use pictures of gnc celebs. If you don’t want them to be targeted use ALL* the gnc celebs.

One side with tones of men in dresses/male up, one with gnc women. And something simple underneath to point out the men are still men & vice versa.

Obviously not all, ever. There have been plenty of twitter threads with numerous pics of men in skirts and/or make up who have always been clear they are all man. It hasn’t done them any harm (why would it- they are men after all??). Lou Reed, David Bowie, boy George, kiss, Nicky Wire, Richie James Edwards, Kurt Cobain, Brian Molko, David Beckham, Harry Styles (think that names right...), tones and tones of others plus a pick of Scots men in kilts. No one is going to jump on these guys and if they did I suspect some of them would tell them to get back in their lane. Nicky Wire was always very public about just being a straight man who liked women’s clothing, and def a mama’s boy (I suspect he’d be gc) and Cobain was very outspoken feminist ally, saying way back in the 90s that we need to stop focusing on teaching women not to be raped but teach men not to be rapists, clearly he can’t speak out but I think it’d be impossible to paint him as someone who didn’t respect women’s rights. Lou Reed already was targeted by trans activists for walk on the wild side being ‘transphobic’ when Lou himself was well known to have been in relationships with transsexuals, and wrote songs about all the transsexuals, transvestites and homosexuals from the factory without judgement, including love song to trans woman he lived with, but being that he lived through times when he was sent for shock treatment for being bisexual and dressing in women’s clothing, and deeply resented the press treating him like a perverted freak show because of this. I’m sure any accusations levelled at him being transphobic for being in a pic to show he was a man who wore skirts would be met by a fight from Laurie Anderson and she’s a very intelligent woman who doesn’t strike me as scared to speak up. Look at Laurie Anderson’s fully automated Nikon project to see how brave and groundbreaking she is. If she doesn’t know about trans ideology harming women she needs to, she'd no doubt be very pro Lou’s image being used as a man in a skirt.

I love the idea of going in hard on the visuals. For example, it's easy to smuggle a moral into a story about animals, as with one of my favourite memes:

Hi, I was going to cite the Transgender Trend publication “Born in your own Body” but I see others have got there before me.

This is a really good point your are raising OP. I’m a litigator and it’s hard to overstate the importance of having the simpler sounding argument. Like you I’ve noticed how complicated it is to argue back. It takes practice to be simple.

There are other slogans out there about acceptance of your own body. Think of the advert “Love the skin you’re in”.

Retrofitted
Yes it looked worse after I typed it.

People can dress however they please, just don't compel us to be complicit with your lies.

LedByDonkeys has also got a good idea of throwing words back in politicians' faces. There's plenty to throw in TRAs' faces.

I'm not a lesbian, but Magdalen Berns peak-transed me with her takedown of the cotton ceiling, because that's a concept horrifying for all women. Cast-iron, rock-solid solidarity. I had no contact with her, but was so upset when she died that I actually cried on a bus. I was furious that that fucker RM gloated (I saw the dancing skeleton with my own eyes, not a screenshot after RM deleted).

Animal metaphors work very well.

Foxes in the henhouse
Cat amongst the pigeons
Wolf in sheep's clothing

All spell danger.

And the elephant in the room.

Metaphors, just metaphors.

A picture is worth a thousand words.

One side with tones of men in dresses/make up, one with gnc women. And something simple underneath to point out the men are still men & vice versa.

This is not going to have any impact in the current cultural environment.

Even in here, where there are stacks of posters who say again and again that a man wearing feminine clothing remains a man, there have been loads of threads denouncing men who buy or wear feminine clothing as predatory or threatening or AGP fetishists.

Culturally we’re not even close to acceptance of men having freedom of choice in what they wear without being judged negatively.

Yes of course Medusa because what we are seeing is the reality.
What we are feeling is being denied to us.

We are the prey.

Observed reality, not assigned by a random wokester.

there must be a pithy way of saying something about womens sport and balls?

How about-
If there's more than one ball in the game, it's not women's sport.

retrofitted Your point is true.

Agreed men should be able to wear whatever they want and I think this whole issue makes it more difficult for those who take steps to avoid making women/girls feel uncomfortable in the process.

We should be expanding the definition of what a man is, not expanding the definition of women to include men.

@WrathofFaeKIop then maybe we should be using images, not words. know that @xxyzz started out from a position of not fighting on the other side's territory, but perhaps it's a good idea to to turn the enemy's weapons against them, as it proves the enemy was armed in the first place.

Armed, against women and children.

Don’t speak bollocks retro. Men are the dominant class, they can expand what’s acceptable for men whenever they want without trampling all over women. It was most definitely more socially acceptable when I grew up for men to be feminine than it is now, it can be again now if they bother to change it.

And apg is just fine, if not pushed onto others. Grayson Perry is open about his, he terms himself a tranny and is open it’s about his sexuality, but he’s clearly gc also and gets not to claim womanhood just because he gets kicks putting on a dress. The problem women here have with apg is it being pushed onto women- so men following women to the female toilets, or not being straight with their wives about being into this before conning them into marriage, or claiming apg makes them a woman. Those like perry who are clear he’s a man and a transvestite and that a dress doesn’t mean he can follow girls to toilets to ask for tampons aren’t an issue at all.

I agree with the above points about balls and also expanding the definition of manhood. Maybe: "It takes balls to wear an outfit like this"?

Oh god sid that’s just as bad, it is not hard for men not to make women uncomfortable- just don’t be a fricken predator. Nicky Wire in a dress & eye liner doesn’t make women uncomfortable when trots off to the men’s loos. It’s no different for any other guy.

The idea that it’s hard for men to not make women uncomfortable is a bunch of victim blaming bs. Men know how to respect boundaries, in a dress or not, it’s not now nor has ever been a complicated thing to respect women.

Medusa -well us Scots term real men the ones with the balls to wear kilts, you could use that?

Nrtft as in the car, but

Biology matters

Is something I've been tempted to say before.

I also favour amplifying the voices and quotes of TRA s. I think that lays out quite how weak the arguments are.

Og, aye

PencilsInSpace - if you don't want to use slogans, then don't. I'm not suggesting replacing all lengthy reasoned argument with short, snappy slogans, or avoiding difficult conversations with people irl in favour of throwing a few slogans out there. I'm definitely talking about an add-on to the current approaches, not an either/or.

MedusasButterDish - love the fox in the hen house cartoon. Though again, this will only be understood in terms of the debate around women's v trans rights by people who already understand the issues. I also agree that playing non-stop Magdalen Berns videos at everyone would probably peak trans them - I didn't know that about dancing skeletons and glad I didn't see that - am trying to wash that image out of my mind. Her videos had a very strong, maybe decisive impact on me, as she was so clear and witty but also so entirely unapologetic. She argued totally for women's rights, from her own viewpoint, not against anyone, and made me feel it was OK for women to stand up unapologetically for their own rights. That's kind of what I'm trying to get across. (I'm no Magdalen Berns, so not as successfully, sadly.)

Sorry, that was to @VMisaMarshmallow. I do like a kilt.