JK Rowling - Thread 2

[MoleSmokes]

Thread 1 started by @MsMcWibble here:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3772685-JK-Rowling
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twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1207646162813100033

Dress however you please.
Call yourself whatever you like.
Sleep with any consenting adult who’ll have you.
Live your best life in peace and security.
But force women out of their jobs for stating that sex is real?
#IStandWithMaya #ThisIsNotADrill
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To start off thread 2 - everyone saying the time was right for this to hit the news stands right after the Election was right!

Maya Forstater's Employment Tribunal case is, by virtue of JK Rowling's support, more popular in The Spectator than Boris Johnson by Boris Johnson, The Tories and The Labour Party!

MOST POPULAR in The Spectator

1. In just a few words, JK Rowling has changed the transgender debate (James Kirkup)

1. Boris Johnson: Perhaps my campaign was ‘clunking’. But sometimes, clunking is what you need (Boris Johnson)
2. We’ve just had the best decade in human history. Seriously (Matt Ridley)
3. Keir Starmer looks and sounds middle class precisely because he’s working class (Isabel Hardman)
4. Let’s make David Lammy Labour’s next leader (Rod Liddle)
5. A new leader won’t stop the far left’s domination of Labour (Nick Cohen)

www.spectator.co.uk/

Well, I do blame her! Caitlin works for The Times for heaven's sake! Ordinary women are speaking out, women without the platform she has, and they are standing up and being counted.

She can be a clever writer, she could shed some light on this quite easily.
I fear she has fallen in with the 'but I know some lovely transwomen' gang.

Everytime I read "don't blame so and so for not speaking up" I hear Mercury singing Galileo in my head.

I am in awe of Navratilova for her outstanding work this year and the snowball effect that had, I sincerely hope Rowling is just getting started.

I'm in awe of all the women who have spoken out too, I thank them from the bottom of my heart.

However I think picking women who haven't spoken out and basically forcing them to say one way or another is unfair when we know what the outcome is.

Re Caitlin Moran - I think if you’ve written a book called How To Be A Woman and have made a reputation based on writing about and promoting feminism, then it’s cowardly to shy away from this issue.

*Well, I do blame her! Caitlin works for The Times for heaven's sake! Ordinary women are speaking out, women without the platform she has, and they are standing up and being counted.

She can be a clever writer, she could shed some light on this quite easily.
I fear she has fallen in with the 'but I know some lovely transwomen' gang*

yes, I agree totally with this.
The Times have been very forthright with their honesty on the Trans stuff. They haven't avoided it. They've confronted it head on, just as any intelligent, clear thinking journalist/newspaper would. I applaud them.
Caitlin is employed by the Times, isn't she?

bold fail there!

According to this article, Ricky Gervais was just joking with his tweets.

"After one person said he was probably “joking” by sending the tweets, Gervais claimed he was “playing along” with the “spoof account”."

"Eventually, when someone asked him to clarify his stance on trans rights, Gervais wrote: “I think trans women are women. I wasn’t talking about trans people.”"

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/ricky-gervais-transphobic-tweets-jk-rowling-maya-forstater-golden-globes-twitter-a9256746.html

Sorry if this has already been posted and I've missed it.

However I think picking women who haven't spoken out and basically forcing them to say one way or another is unfair when we know what the outcome is.

I agree with this.

And I also accept this is why we have a very unbalanced civic discussion in many ways because one side is very vocal, supported and amplified by social media, and the other isn't.

Likes on Twitter are now over 191 thousand. Comments are around 35 thousand. Some of these are going to be supportive and others are the same people commenting many times.

Surely it is obvious that the vast majority of people agree with the sentiment of the original post. The threats and magical thinking are coming from one side only and it is not the reasonable one.

and the thread on mumsnet showed 94% agreement with Rowling. The emperor is naked.

So could some one help me understand, has Gervais just done a massive U turn by saying he was joking and that he believes trans woman are women?

@Scarscar my understanding, which I put on the Andrew Nolan & Ricky Gervais thread, is that RG is making a deliberate distinction between predatory men who use self-ID to gain access to women's spaces for abusive means, and 'genuine' trans women who simply want to be viewed as women. He does specifically state that trans women are women. Which does seem somewhat of a turnaround from what his tweets earlier that same day were saying, but a lot of those tweets were sarcastic and messing around so it's hard to know. Part of me wonders whether he's enjoying being deliberately obtuse.

I do however think there's a different and much more serious tone in the tweets where he makes it's clear TWAW and he doesn't want (predatory) men being able to easily call themselves women.

There’s no way Gervais has backtracked. This is the tweet in question.

I think he was (clumsily) trying to draw a distinction between “genuine” trans people and predatory men who would exploit self ID to commit crimes.

But there’s no way he genuinely believes TWAW.

Then why is he categorically saying that TWAW Haworthia? Do you think he's being sarcastic or deliberately obtuse? Because I considered that but I'm really not sure he is. It wasn't just that tweet, there's these too.

And I agree I don't think he genuinely believes TWAW but I absolutely think that's what he's saying, regardless of the reason why.

This is getting a bit obsessive.

Part of me wonders whether he's enjoying being deliberately obtuse.

I think he is. Or at least if I had Ricky Gervais's following and penchant for mischief, I would be sorely tempted to bang a GC drum about the risks of self-ID while simultaneously saying, straight-faced, that TWAW.

It effectively forces the point that not everyone who disagrees with self ID and TRA extremism is a right-wing, transphobic, funded-by-the-Christian-right, Trump-loving hag... almost as if that wasn't actually true at all 🤔😬

What o earth is going on?

Thanks, I'm dyslexic so don't always get it. Appreciate the explanations.

Yes MarDhea I think you're right, and not just for the reason you said. He likes winding people up (and why not) and is probably enjoying being slippery with his language so he can't be pinned down - frustrating and confusing those on the TWAW side as they can't get purchase.

Mar

It effectively forces the point that not everyone who disagrees with self ID and TRA extremism is a right-wing, transphobic, funded-by-the-Christian-right, Trump-loving hag... almost as if that wasn't actually true at all

Agree with this, he is highlighting the issues without saying the unsayable.

It's also perfectly possible to see A problem, that the GRA changes are going to open the doors to EVERYONE and "getting ahead of the law" is already causing these problems, but not be gender critical at all.
A lot of the transsexuals (Their word not mine) who are against self ID are this.

for raising awareness of the dangers of self ID, all these groups can work towards that goal.

It's after this where opinions will be splintered more and more.

And in case HQ need names in order not to delete the post above the following consider themselves transsexuals and see the issue with GRA changes.
Debbie Hayton, Kristina Harrison, Jaycee Dove, Ashlee Kelly, Kay M, Rachel Maton, Leanne Mills, Amanda Dee, Rhona de Jong, Fionne Orlander, Jenny Seed, Isobel Sheldon, Miranda Yardley.

Such hard work staying within the guidlines.

He likes winding people up (and why not) and is probably enjoying being slippery with his language so he can't be pinned down - frustrating and confusing those on the TWAW side as they can't get purchase.

Yes, absolutely. It's enjoyable to observe. Lots of wokesters thinking they've played a trump card only to have him wriggle out of it in three words. Tremendous fun.