Maya lost - can it be true?

[OhHolyJesus]

I'm not saying it is true - Twitter isn't known for being wedded to truth...anyone able to shed light? I thought the verdict wasn't due for a while...

twitter.com/boysvswomen/status/1207379435684585474

I do not consider that the Claimant’s belief fails the test of being “attain a certain level of cogency, seriousness, cohesion and importance”; even though there is significant scientific evidence that it is wrong.

So it passes the test. It does attain cogency and importance. Not surprisingly, as it's self-evidently true.

So why did he decide against it?

I'm really worried by this outcome.

I'll be keeping an eye out for crowdfunder for an appeal or however else I can help.

Oh FFS. I got the email from Maya. This is just so wrong.

Judges tend to be right-wing, and of the philosophically held belief that companies should be free to fire anyone for any reason, so employment tribunals are typically hard won, if won at all. I was expecting a vague sort of "sorry, technicality" loss.

I really was not prepared for this utterly scathing, legally inaccurate, virtually illiterate judgement against Maya.

I hope with all my heart and soul she finds the strength (and funds) to appeal.
ALSO Very glad to understand that this "judgment" does not set any legal precedent, it's simply the result of this one tribunal.

The judge is an ignorant, misogynistic imbecile. That's for sure.

89. ...“I reserve the right to use the pronouns “he” and “him” to refer to male people. While I may choose to use alternative pronouns as a courtesy, no one has the right to compel others to make statements they do not believe.”

90. I conclude from this, and the totality of the evidence, that the Claimant is absolutist in her view of sex and it is a core component of her belief that she will refer to a person by the sex she considered appropriate even if it violates their dignity and/or creates an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment. The approach is not worthy of respect in a democratic society.

My italics. Surely Maya has made clear that, while her views are absolute, she is willing to compromise for courtesy - ie to avoid causing an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment?

And if a woman identifies a physically male person as a man, is it not intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive to her to force her to deny the evidence of her perceptions? Is that an approach worthy of respect in a democratic society?

Earlier in the judgement, the judge specifies that it is legal and reasonable to exclude males from rape crisis services. Their presence, no matter how they identify or present, may create an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment - not that he said this. Why is correctly sexing a person in a rape crisis service worthy of respect in a democratic society, yet outwith that service it it is not?

So it passes the test

I think because although it passes the cogency test, it does not pass the human dignity test and it needs to pass ALL of the tests to be considered a belief for the purposes of the EA.

Coming back on to say to Maya, what a fucking legend you are.

As you can see we are all here, all fuming, and ready to help in any way we can. You took one for the team and we are with you.

If you're done I understand. If not then let us know when you're ready for round 2.

Just wanted to post to join those saying 'thank you'.
we all owe you a debt of gratitude.
I hope you can appeal.

For a philosophical belief to be protected under the Act it must:
Be genuinely held.
Be a belief and not just an opinion or viewpoint based on the present state of information available.
Be about a weighty and substantial aspect of human life and behaviour.
Attain a certain level of cogency, seriousness, cohesion and importance.
AND
Be worthy of respect in a democratic society, not incompatible with human dignity and not in conflict with fundamental rights of others.
(For example, Holocaust denial, or the belief in racial superiority are not protected)

I’m gutted at this ruling (but sadly not that shocked) at this ruling and Maya, you’re amazing. Thank you for fighting this on behalf of all of us.

As I read recently, we are no longer in a position where we have to protect women’s rights, we're in a position where we have to restore them.

Rape prosecutions at an all time low
Rape not prosecuted at all in Holbeck
Women forced to share spaces with males
Safeguarding of children utterly dismantled
Porn culture
2 women a week are murdered by men and no one cares.

Jesus wept.

Yes, on a scientific basis climate change denial and flat-earthers and anti-vaxxers and anti-evolutionists have MUCH better evidence for their beliefs than those who claim you can change sex because you say so / inner feelings. (note: I am not saying they have good evidence as I also think they are all wrong, I'm just saying their case is MUCH better than anyone who says men can become women just because)

This judge needs to be disbarred. I'm a former biologist (and still hold all the qualifications) - anyone up for a letter of complaint? Who do I write to?

Judges tend to be right-wing

Not employment judges. Quite the opposite.

I think because although it passes the cogency test, it does not pass the human dignity test and it needs to pass ALL of the tests to be considered a belief for the purposes of the EA.

I don't think pretending women have dicks passes the human dignity test.

Clearly human dignity doesn't apply when it comes to women and girls. We already knew this though.

Oh Maya. I don't always understand much of the nuances and legalese but surely this is nonsense?

I feel like this is the beginning of the end. Every so often I read something that suggests the tide is turning - but then this.

Gilead. We're in Gilead. I'll be a Martha or an Unwoman for sure.

Maya, if you want to crowd fund for an appeal, I will donate and I am sure that others will too.

Where is the consideration of how it violates women’s dignity when our thousands of years of oppression is disappeared by the sleight of hand trick that makes the definition of a woman something that can exist as well in a male’s head as it does in a woman’s physical reality?

I find that pretty hostile, degrading and offensive to women and girls everywhere.

82. I accept that the Claimant genuinely holds the view that sex is biological and immutable. For her it is more that an opinion or viewpoint based on the present state of information available. Even though she has come to this belief recently she is fixed in it, and appears to be becoming more so. She is not prepared to consider the possibility that her belief may not be correct.

Did Maya say that? That she had only recently discovered that people can't change sex?

I certainly don't think locking women in prisons in with males with penises is compatible with human dignity, but it seems like dignity is something men are allowed disproportionately and women aren't.

I don't think pretending women have dicks passes the human dignity test

No, but there's no accounting for judges. They have some funny ideas.

Lots of people hold 'protected beliefs' that others will go to hell. How is that more compatible with human dignity than knowing we can't change sex?

Unbelievable. I am so bloody angry. Time to (wo)man the barricades, anyone?

Maya, just say if there is anything we can do. We are all with you, whatever you need.

Lumene - can you explain more?

dignity is something men are allowed disproportionately and women aren't

Dignity, privacy, beliefs, our own lived experience, spaces, words, thoughts, safety, respect.

There's a lot of things women are having quietly and thoroughly taken off them.

Just coming on here to say the same thing as I just saw the crowd justice email.

I am in shock.

Maya, I’m so sorry, after all your hard work and determination. I just want you to know that your courage DOES call to courage for many of us. This is not over.