Maya lost - can it be true?

[OhHolyJesus]

I'm not saying it is true - Twitter isn't known for being wedded to truth...anyone able to shed light? I thought the verdict wasn't due for a while...

twitter.com/boysvswomen/status/1207379435684585474

The judgement is teeming with TRA buzz words and phrases. Definitely a bias judge. Out of order. Poor Maya. Poor us. The future isn't looking bright for those of us who share Maya's views.

I think you're right that the support that many men show for TW is due to transphobia and castration anxiety. TW somehow threaten their own masculinity, so it helps them to deny that such people are men. And if they're not men, they must be women.

Yes. It's very telling.

popehilarious I can't make sense of that either. I assume there's a typo in there (but I can't work out what it should read).

This is a horrific result. Maya, if you're reading, thank you so much for everything you've risked in taking your case to court. I'm more upset for you than I can say.

The ball has to be in your court now, whether you go to appeal or not. We'll all understand if you've had enough, you've done so much already. If you want to go on to appeal, I'm one of the many who will very readily support another crowdfunder. Whatever you decide, we're with you and standing by you. You're one very, very brave woman and I couldn't admire you more.

Oh dear, judge is a dick - or a shenis, should I say.

My mate who is a woman but was a man would be horrified at the judgment. TW don't approve of rape risks any more than anyone else. Indeed, a lot of TW know more about what potential rapists try than the rest of us.

Trans is a perfectly polite word to use both at work and socially. Some people are actively proud to define as trans, it's not an easy journey. If you're single, you get a lot of invitations.

Trying to claim the word trans is a foul obscenity/insult to dignity/yada is ludicrous and would never be upheld by the trans community. Who I expect the judge is really, really familiar with.

So angry

Presea ManFriday had enormous impact a few years ago. I think that, yes, women identifying as men and demanding/forcing entry into male spaces, inconveniencing and disrupting men, is one form protest will have to take.

Change only happens at the point of pain. The most significant aspect of genderism is that girls and women bear ALL the brunt. We are going have to make boys and men bear some of that.

man here!

as other have suggested, I definitely think that one of the key reasons why so many men don't really understand the concerns of women about trans women is that they just can't get their head around a 'man' wanting to be a woman.

In addition, I believe that most men think that trans women are secretly gay and that the reason they want to become women is so that they can snare hetrosexual men more easily.

@smileylottie87

From the judgement:

61. There is an exception in respect of service provision set out in paragraph 28 of schedule 3 EqA that might, if it is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim, allow provision to be made for services (such a hostels for survivors or rape) to be made available only to women assigned female at birth.

is some of this about the fact that there's more money to be made - in many industries - from supporting ideas such as those contained in the judgement?

Absolutely chilling. Both for the implications of a ruling that says women don't have rights and that an understanding of biology is unlawful, and that a judge is permitted to be so biased and/or stupid.

for you Maya. I will help dig more if you need it.

61. There is an exception in respect of service provision set out in paragraph 28 of schedule 3 EqA that might, if it is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim, allow provision to be made for services (such a hostels for survivors or rape) to be made available only to women assigned female at birth.

Common knowledge. And it makes clear that GRC holders can be excluded too, so the argument that having a GRC trumps everything is nonsense.

Devereux1 the point you made about judges being self selecting, do you mean they choose the cases?

Am just thinking what this might mean for the Oxfordshire trans toolkit challenge. We really don't want "diversity" judges.

Thank you for your bravery, Maya. What you say makes perfect sense to me and I find myself baffled at the judge's conclusion. I used to think it was tin foil hat conspiracy, but I really do think there is a war on women going on. Solidarity to you .

So if a man wants to use the women’s changing rooms in the gym at work, and I object, I can be sacked for that?

We can be sacked for not parroting whatever nonsense men want, so they can enjoy their fetishes?

Honestly, sometimes I think that with so many people sleepwalking into a world where women have no privacy or dignity, where it’s not safe for us to change at a swimming pool, where we get assaulted by men in prison, where we get defeated by men in every sport, where we can’t monitor violence against women or the gender pay gap - that we’ve got to hit rock bottom before the world wakes up.

I’m guessing that if the judge’s teenage daughter had to shower in front of middle aged men he might actually come back to earth. Maybe this is what it’ll take - all the woke blokes in position of power realising that it’s their wives and daughters and mothers and sisters who are frightened, humiliated, defeated and endangered - and who aren’t even allowed to object to this. Or maybe even then they won’t give a fuck.

Please appeal, Maya. You did the right thing. Big respect. Ashers lost at first, didn’t they? I’m sorry you’re having to go through this.

Am I breaking the law when I teach A level Biology?

The last section from 80 onwards has holes you could drive a truck through.

For a start, you cannot support that males are absolutely entirely women and must be called so and treated as such on their decision to make this so AND at the same time talk about reserving spaces for females in cases where separate provision is needed. The one cancels the other out, which was a large part of Maya's point.

Legal fiction - yes, that's what it is. The existence of intersex disorders does absolutely nothing to prove that a male who identifies as a woman has changed sex or is anything other than a biological male.

There's a lot of talk about dignity and human rights only ever extended one way, and never with the faintest reciprocal consideration towards female people. The judge in dismissing whether calling a TWAW is problematic in the same way as not calling them W just ignores completely the practical implications Maya spent a long time detailing about why forcing females to comply with a subjective personal reality IS damaging to females as a class in some circumstances.

It's completely incoherent.

Well it wouldn't be the first time a Judge has ruled against a rational woman who is telling the truth.

So sorry, Maya, but I thank you for your courage

Am I breaking the law when I teach A level Biology?

It's beginning to look that way, Endo.

I'm reminded of the comment someone made about why the USSR produced so many outstanding mathematicians: maths was the one thing that couldn't be politicised, so it was a safe place to put your intellect to work in. (Lysenkoism here we come...)

Presumably the judge thinks that if he wants to have a child, a trans woman is just as good a bet as a biological female then.

Knewmee "Maybe this is what it’ll take - all the woke blokes in position of power realising that it’s their wives and daughters and mothers and sisters who are frightened, humiliated, defeated and endangered "

Unfortunately I don't think this will happen.

I now can't remember how long I've been worrying about this stuff - 3 years maybe? - and all I've heard in terms of arguments has implied two major issues

1. Men don't care what happens to women, even if they are someone they allegedly love

2. Men will be quite happy for women to disappear from public life

It all goes back to GG's remark about women not understanding how much men hate them - I do understand but unfortunately, for those of trying to fight this battle, most people don't really want to examine the truth of that.

it's terrifying.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/12/18/test-case-rules-against-tax-expert-sacked-transgender-tweet/

Published 10 mins ago

May I suggest Maya if you decide to appeal, asking a speaker from one of the DSD groups who have repeatedly asked not to be appropriated and weaponised by the trans political lobby to explain to the judge slowly and clearly in small words that trans and DSD are not the same thing.

What did the judge do? Phone up Stonewall and take dictation?